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    The effect of lowered ceilings are even more pronounced at higher ages when you take into account getting some answers wrong, but reaching the end of the questions without getting discontinued.

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    My DD did the Wppsi at 4y9m and had multiple issues with "soft" ceilings. She got the end of the test, but having made mistakes along the way and being older for that test, she was getting 17s & 18s as it wasn't possible for a child of her age to get 19 if they made early mistakes and still got to the end of the section.

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    She also had one subtest where she scored 17 despite a perfect score - 17 was the maximum allowable score for her age.

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    My dd scored 19 on two subsets (Matrix Reasoning and Picture Concepts) when she was 6. My memory may be not be accurate, but with extended norms I believe one of them would have have gone up to 28. The psychologist had said she had answered all questions correctly.

    I wonder if she would do as well at age 10 if she re-took it! :-)

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    Originally Posted by Nutmeg
    My dd scored 19 on two subsets (Matrix Reasoning and Picture Concepts) when she was 6. My memory may be not be accurate, but with extended norms I believe one of them would have have gone up to 28. The psychologist had said she had answered all questions correctly.

    I wonder if she would do as well at age 10 if she re-took it! :-)

    My ds scored two 19s and one 18 in one of his indices when he was 11. Extended norms weren't done, but by the sounds of it or my limited understanding, they might not have been all that illuminating given he was 11 and a half when he tested. Am I wrong in this assumption?

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    Originally Posted by Pi22
    Originally Posted by Zen Scanner
    As a pure example: A sub-section may have 40 progressively harder questions, an eight year old may hit the ceiling after getting 23 correct generating a scaled score of 19 (which is 3 standard deviations above the mean.)

    A fourteen year old may get a scaled score of 19 with 38 correct.
    It is also possible for an eight year old to get 38 correct. And in this case, neither kid may have reached the discontinue criterion (the point where several items are answered incorrectly and the subtest is stopped). However, the impact of this type of ‘ceiling’ (running out of questions) increases as a child gets older. If the extended norms are used, the standard score for the eight year old may increase from a 19 to a 28 (the highest possible standard score using the extended norms), but the standard score for the fourteen year old may only be able to go up to a 20 with the extended norms and may even stay at a 19 on certain subtests. There just aren’t enough questions on the WISC to extend the norms above a 19 after a certain age. So while the IQ scores of both the 8 and 14 year olds would be considered underestimates if the discontinue criterion were not met (both children may have been able to answer more questions had there been more available), you’d expect the underestimate to be much more severe for the fourteen year old.

    I think this is one reason Linda Silverman from the Gifted Development Center believes that ages 4 - 9 is the best time to test gifted children (see http://www.gifteddevelopment.com/PDF_files/problems.pdf). The extended norms can be used to differentiate HG, EG, and maybe even PG kids in this age range. But once kids are older, there just aren’t enough questions on the WISC to measure the full range of abilities.

    What is the solution, then? If they got close to raw score ceilings as a young child, what test will give a high-ish enough ceiling when they're 11 or 12 maybe being tested for high school programs? Do they do OK on adult tests?

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    The SB5 goes from early childhood through to adulthood, so is theoretically free of this problem. Certainly when we retested my DD after the issues with the wppsi she did much better on the sb5 and had no ceiling issues (and did have 19s and 18s)

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