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You didn't feel better about it because you hoped the teacher was going to say it wasn't true that she got cross with your DD, or was going to apologise for it and say she'd try to react differently in future, or what? Not sure I'm understanding.

DS had a teacher the year he turned 6 whose style I didn't really approve of and of whom he was scared to start with - she would explode without warning when behaviour was bad, which he found very hard to cope with. He still prefers the teachers whose discipline style is to be utterly predictable, but this teacher was brilliant for him in other ways, and they came to an accommodation. Reading your report of the conversation between this teacher and your DD, I was reminded of that.

Even if there isn't SAD in the equation, at this time of the year young children can get very tired, IME. Might be worth thinking about whether there's scope for taking it easier in the evenings and weekends?

Your post rings a bell with me. My DD is 9 and is a perfectionist. The behavior you describe really didn't come to the light of day for me until about 3rd grade (8 years old). She had an extremely nurturing kindy teacher and looped with the same teacher for 1st/2nd, who never gave her negative feedback (probably, to be honest, because her hands were quite full with kids who had serious behavioral issues).

In 3rd grade, her first parent teacher conference was great. The teacher even commented that if her daughter behaved as well as my DD and was as bright, she would be over the moon.

Then shortly thereafter, I started getting notes about how DD made a friend cry at school (totally out of her nature, she is a very compassionate girl).

How she is unorganized and is going to receive poor scores in that area.

I was so stressed out and confused. I talked to DD and she said the incident when she made a friend cry, they were asked to work in teams of two and come up with an idea for a project and work together on it. My DD wanted one thing, the other girl wanted another thing. Rather then compromise, they argued (as 8 year old girls naturally will do at times) and in the end, the other girl cried and got her idea as a reward for figuring out how to manipulate the system.

I am OK with that, because that is life. My DD has to learn to have better negotiating skills, but what disheartened me was that the teacher blamed my DD for the other girls discontent. And she actually got marked down for "gets along with other team members" on her report card over this one instance.

What all of this negative feedback started doing to my DD (the perfectionist) was stressing her out. This year her goal going into 4th grade was "to be more organized and get a better report card". That broke my heart because her report card (grade wise) could not get any better and the only two areas that indicated she needed improvement were for organizational skills and team work.

I sat down with DD and explained to her the old saying: To whom much has been given, much is expected.

I explained how at times that would be unfair and place her under unnecessary stress, but for her, naturally, the bar is so high that she has no wiggle room.

I decided this fall to lighten up on my own personal expectations of DD, try to let her have some grace on her perfectionism because I am a perfectionist also.

I know how debilitating it can be. I would rather not try something if I feared disappointing anyone, rather then try it and not succeed. I missed out on so much because I was a slave to that feeling and no one understood me.

She got a low mark this past report card for organizational skills (it is ironic that a perfectionist struggles to be organized and I don't understand this entirely, as this was never a problem for me) but I talk to DD about it to try to set a reasonable goal and tell her if she can get the mark up, that is great but not to sweat the small stuff because in the grand scheme of things, based on her overall report card, achievement levels, etc... if that is all they can come up with to challenge her, then she should be very proud.

Now, keep in mind, I know organizational skills are very important and try to subtly help her become better with this, but at the end of the day, that is a hill I am not willing to die on and DD should not feel anxiety over one are of her life that she can't seem to perfect.

Wow, I feel like I did a lot of venting, so I apologize for hijacking but my bottom line comment is that I think your DD might be a perfectionist who set the bar too high at the beginning of the school year and when she starts being less then perfect, she is having anxiety over the constructive (hopefully it has been constructive) criticism she is receiving as feedback.

A book which seems to understand very well and which many find supportive is "What To Do When Good Enough Isn't Good Enough". Another book you might like is "Perfectionism: What's Bad About Being Too Good". While insightful, these are written gently for kids, in a style that is fun and engaging.

Possibly at home and even at school, this may be done already, but I'll offer this idea just in case: Sometimes it helps to see how the child would like to organize things, what makes sense to them. For example, books by size?... by read/unread? by hardcover/paperback? by color of the cover? For girls, accessories together in one place? Or jewelry separate from hair accessories? One spot for fingernail polish, do not have more than what fits in that spot? While children talk through these things and prioritize their possessions according to their own wishes and the constraints of space available, they may develop their sense of self and see ways in which they may be alike their parents, friends, siblings, and the ways in which they may be different... uniquely developing their own personality. In a person who may be perfectionistic and an aspect of that may be fear of being "wrong" or "letting someone down", a person may end up hoarding things out of a sense of obligation for another's sentimental reasons which they may not share... possibly making it difficult to organize/prioritize without offending someone. On the purely practical side: looking online, through catalogs, or in a few shops may help find storage solutions which appeal to a person. For example, a stackable clear bin with a lid on it for out-of-season clothes or last year's books or treasures that need to be seen at a glance, but may not be used for months at a time... A pretty box or wood shelf for things that a person may prefer to keep out of sight... a file for cherished "best work" and photos of projects which may form a child's portfolio. If a person feels control over what they decide to keep and where/how they keep it, and knows they are respected for their personal choices in these matters, they may free themselves to grow immensely. The questions they may wish to ask themselves may be along the lines of... what do I like... what things go together (there may be a broad range of answers to this)... where will I want to look for this and find this when I need it?

Exactly! It may be that anxiety is impeding organization in the first place, so this may become a downward spiral.

I'm sorry this happened. Although this may be life, it may be an aspect of society where we may bring about change. I personally would take this opportunity to explain about the process of listing Pro/Cons, advantages/disadvantages to each approach. Many kids grasp this from an early age, especially when they may see parents or other adults "weighing" things prior to making a decision. I would share that there is often a compromise position of incorporating aspects of several ideas to make a new idea. I would discuss and give examples of the difference between positive arguing/debating the merits and drawbacks of topics/issues/projects, in which people may share their knowledge base and viewpoints... and negative/unacceptable arguing which makes an attack, however mild, on another person. I would encourage my child to be fully responsible for their own behavior (not making attacks, etc) and to take NO responsibility for the behavior of others (attacks, crying, etc). I would encourage my child that if they know they had argued in a fair and positive manner as described above, and someone else has not but rather has utilized attacks, crying, etc that this needs to be made known. It is unacceptable for an individual to be written up for the negative behavior, lack of coping skills, or emotional manipulation of another individual.

As other parents have shared on recent threads, it may be beneficial for children to be taught skills for working in groups, before the children are assigned to groupwork. If schools are not providing the necessary background for working in groups, conflict resolution, acceptable and unacceptable approaches, then parents may wish to do this. This may become increasingly important as schools may be recording many data points on our children, and the entry of false/inaccurate negative information may cast a long shadow on a child's future.

A teacher saying that someone "made" another cry is in itself a red flag, in that it holds one party responsible for the behavior of another. One does not "make" another cry, hit, use offensive language, etc. An accurate, unbiased statement may describe what one said or did. For example, X called Y a name... X rolled her eyes when Y was speaking... X refused to add Y's ideas to the list of Pros but only added each idea Y offered as a Pro to the list of Cons. Children, parents, and teachers may all need to be aware of "what they said" -vs- "what I heard".

In looking at both the freedom to establish organizational systems (and re-establish organizational systems in a re-iterative, refining process without feeling one was "wrong" about the previous setups)... and also at the freedom inherent in taking responsibility for one's own words and actions but not the words or actions of others... here I think of the positive "growth mindset" as opposed to a self-limiting fixed mindset.

indigo, thank you for your insight and the book recommendation. Your post spoke to me on many different levels. I would like to mention that I do have pretty in depth discussions with my DD when something like this happens to her. We did talk about the interaction that led up to the other girl crying and I explained to her about her right to have an opinion or an idea and support it just as passionately as the other team member. I explained to her that she has no control over the reaction that the other team member chooses to exhibit. I explained compromise (maybe the two of them could have given up one idea each and accepted one idea of the other each, for example) and then I talked to her about the reality of life and how people misjudge others and it is often not fair. I want her to know I support her when she is right but I also want her to know that life is going to be full of these conflicts for her, especially because she is stuck in a school that has no gifted and talented recognition or program, so she is always going to struggle to fit in.

Thankfully this year we have a teacher who differentiates and is willing to recognize and challenge her, so I think some of that struggle will be alleviated for her, but you never know what you are going to get year after year.

At any rate, I will check out the book and see who it helps more (her or me!) Thanks for the feedback.

This is great. We need to raise strong women.

Wish I could get the hang of getting my own way like some people do though even if it did take a little manipulation.

moomin, considering where your DD was up until she started K a few months ago, she has made a tremendous progress.

If I recall correctly, there is a GT school that is close to you. Are you considering that school for the next year? Do you happen to know if they are open to radical acceleration if that is what she needs? Subjecting her to yet another major transition may not be in her best interest but I'm still unsure about the fit of the current immersion school for her next year.

Moomin,

Maybe I am massively misunderstanding what your concerns are or perhaps it's cultural but I don't see the teacher here doing anything wrong.

I will also note that our DS has a "school honeymoon" period at the start of every year, and once the whole thing is familiar, in October, things get much much harder for him. Without the novelty, it's harder for him to sustain attention and participation.

We work hard to help teachers keep him engaged. It usually gets better again, but it's a huge amount of work for everyone concerned.

DeeDee

If I understand correctly, DD5 expects mutual "warm fuzzy" feelings with the teacher in order to be convinced that the teacher likes/accepts her? Although she seems to observe and understand very much, DD5 is still young and may have storybook expectations? Kids who are used to making accurate connections between things and drawing logical/plausible/correct conclusions may be surprised to find that interpersonal interactions may be more nuanced and therefore the child's conclusions may be erroneous in this area. DD5 may need to match/merge what she is observing with a different set of managed expectations? For example, she may enjoy knowing that we all have different roles; In the classroom the teacher is acting as a professional, striving to treat all children with the same cordial impartiality.

These concepts were probably well-covered in your conversation with DD5 on phenomenology of social interaction and the problem of emotional solipsism.

Meanwhile, might DD5 enjoy putting her observational and communication powers to work on crafting a variety of fictional endings, and a variety of character motivations, authoring a few tales? Having that as a creative outlet may help hone her skill in distinguishing fact from embellishment/exaggeration, understanding the lens through which one is interpreting, keeping straight "what they said" -vs- "what I heard", and ensuring one is not projecting?

Just my 2 cents.