Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Advice needed on very difficult teacher

I forgot to write a detail: she wrote the test herself. She wrote it after a self-admitted cursory glance at the chapter titles in the 4th grade book. Even after I told her that five out of ten questions were taught in 5th grade and not in 4th, she still wasn't completely convinced.

She assumed that the pathetic answers were due to the kids forgetting what they had learned. It clearly hadn't even occurred to her that she had tested them on stuff they hadn't learned yet. Nor did she seem to have gone through the 5th grade textbook, which of course, she is supposed to be teaching. If she'd looked at it even semi-carefully, she would have known.

Surely that is something you can escalate to administration? How can she have any idea what level children are actually at when she's not even testing the right thing?

Ideally, grades in math class should reflect what math a student knows, not how he staples, but are there consequences for getting a C vs. an A in 5th grade math? For example, will the A students be sent to a different math class in 6th grade? (Sorry to the OP if she has already answered this question.)

Getting my first C in sixth grade math from this teacher's equivalent when I was in school convinced me grades were a complete fraud and certainly heavily flavored my interactions with school from then on.

In what way? It may be a lot to ask, but I was wondering whether this could be turned into a good thing. Amused contempt is in many ways the right approach to grades - get away from seeing them as a judgement of oneself, and see them as a school game which at certain times will be important to play well, but which fundamentally is far less important than learning stuff. If Val's DD could take this year as a chance to learn that, that'd be positive.

The thing that's got less attention than many other things in this thread, but which bothers me far more, is the teacher's professed unwillingness to accept maths problems solved in a way she wasn't expecting. All the rest is small, if annoying, stuff, but that's important.

Yes to ZS's post. Also-- getting MY first C from one of them in Algebra I as a seventh grader is what made me so utterly sure that I was a "bad" student-- I just didn't know it...

and that I was (evidently) particularly bad at mathematics. This impression was fully reinforced by encounters with two MORE math teachers like this during my high school years-- one of them fully competent (well, apparently-- he taught calculus, anyway) but mustering such an intense personal dislike of me that he actually TOLD my mother during a conference-- even knowing that she was a teacher herself, and in front of me, no less-- that the reason I wasn't doing better in his class was that he "just didn't like me very much." The other one was so appallingly incompetent that I am astonished that she continued to be employed by the district. No-- I'm very much afraid that once one ventures above elementary grades, mathematics instruction in public schools is VERY hit-or-miss.

And yes-- it matters. It particularly matters to girls, who are more likely to take a fixed mindset with aptitude in STEM, and far more likely to be teacher-pleasers who internalize apparent failure.

I didn't recover fully until differential equations, taken under duress during my senior year of college. Man, I felt like Cinderella had finally gotten to go to the ball. But I have never really gotten over it. I assume that pretty much every one of my peers (meaning those with similar intellect and education) is better at math than I am. This is clearly not the case. But the alternative explanation-- that I had not one, not two, but THREE capricious and hostile teachers who made it their mission to suck the joy and animus from math students-- seems less plausible than the alternative presented by imposter syndrome.

So no-- this kind of messaging to students at this particular developmental juncture is incredibly damaging. My lack of confidence with mathematics really held me back in an area of strength and passion.

Amused (with a pinch of self-righteous) contempt, definitely. Perhaps I took from Wargames that the only way to win was to not play the game. It meant in the longer term that I was unwilling to do any work that I did not see directly enhancing or self-confirming my learning in a subject.

I would explain to teachers that "no I would not be turning in my 'class notes' that I would not be taking" or the useless algebra homework. "That's fine, whatever grade you deam appropriate based on that. I am concerned over mastering the material and will only be interested in my test and quiz results." Slightly over-categorized as that competed with my general fear of conflict.

In middle and high school, plenty of Bs in classes that would've been As, but nothing too drastic beyond a few lectures from teachers that I would be unhireable.

It didn't work as well with under-challenging college classes where I would decide a term paper here or there was not relevant to my learning particularly as a requirement from the people I was paying to teach me.

The C wasn't the first straw, and obviously different people in different family contexts, etc. would react different.

I have to call BS on this teacher and reiterated my earlier comment.


Her approach just seems to be brazen bluster, without substance.


This could be further evidence of incompetence. It also seems strange that such an extremely pedantic person is not thoroughly familiar with what material should be covered in what grade. (I suppose pedantic people can be lazy too.)

But you should check that all of the material that should have been covered in grade 4 was actually covered. It could be that the grade 4 teacher had inadequately prepared them. Also there is a huge amount of repetition over the years, so an end-of-year assessment could have a lot of overlap with a beginning-of-the-year assessment.

Yes, I agree.

People here may have speculated, as I have, that something internal is driving her pettiness (e.g. papers stapled the right way). I have a strong suspicion about this.

I agree that she may not know the subject well, though it's hard to say. She's been teaching it for many, many years. So I want to give her credit. But...she's only taught 6-8th grade math the whole time (yes, I asked) and she's been teaching the same way the whole time (she basically told me). So it's possible that she knows the algorithms that she uses and not much else. I honestly don't know. Her degree is in a non-technical subject and she told me she took "these classes" as an adult.

Another thing is that Ms. T. goes at less than a snail's pace. She says she goes faster when they get to algebra. We'll see. At this point, we're a month into school and we're still repeating the problems on the very first worksheet (negative numbers). DD has literally been made to repeat 5-8=? four times: the first time with a number line, then two times for corrections over petty things like the wrong arrowheads, then again last night without the number line.



She covered everything. DD usually sat next to me while she did her homework, and I could see what she was doing. Ditto for DS, who was in fifth grade. So I have a very good basis for judging Ms. T.'s assessment as having missed target by a wide margin.


I think it's pretty clear that a substantial portion of American teachers don't understand math (at least, teachers at the K-8 level). Liping Ma learned this in her survey. I've heard it at education conferences that focus on the subject and I've seen it in grant application review. And of course, this idea is supported by the experiences of many people here.

God that is depressing. I am so sorry for your DD. Other than speaking with the administration I'm not sure what you can do in this situation.