|
0 members (),
184
guests, and
12
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
S |
M |
T |
W |
T |
F |
S |
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
|
2
|
|
3
|
4
|
5
|
6
|
7
|
8
|
9
|
|
10
|
11
|
12
|
13
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
|
17
|
18
|
19
|
20
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
|
24
|
25
|
26
|
27
|
28
|
29
|
30
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,181
Member
|
Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,181 |
"I've never seen one, but they could exist. I can't prove it either way" seems pretty balanced to me. Siding against the kid who's crying seems a bit harsh. I agree. What a horrible experience for a child! 
Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,691 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,691 Likes: 1 |
I simply do not think saying belief in such stories are or the equivalent of religious beliefs. False dichotomy. Belief is belief. They're only different in that the adults who told them these things "know" they're different. From the perspective of the children, however, there is no difference between a belief in fairies and a belief in God. In both cases, they are defending perspectives they "know" to be true. Regardless of the children's awareness of the underlying truth of the beliefs, the importance of the belief in question should, IMO, be factored into how the discussion is treated. I would not want my child's teacher to treat belief in the divine as if it were on the same level as belief in fictional fairy stories. Even if the teacher believes that my religion is tantamount to fiction, the importance other religious belief/non-belief is assigned in the reasonable person's life should afford it greater respect than a difference of opinion on other matters, like the existence of fictional creatures. I would have wanted the teacher to acknowledge that fairies are imaginary creatures, but that it is perfectly acceptable to engage in pretend play that they're real. For a difference in religious opinion in a multi-faith environment, I think along the lines of blackcat. In a single-faith school, I'd want a message consistent with the beliefs of the religion. Again, I think this is totally patronizing. How are your beliefs in the divine any different from another's beliefs in fairies. Ask any athiest? To them your beliefs are no different. And they have history that shows how the bible was changed to suit the political strategies of the times. Fairies have been unchanged since the time of Merlin I think...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,035
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,035 |
I simply do not think saying belief in such stories are or the equivalent of religious beliefs. False dichotomy. Belief is belief. They're only different in that the adults who told them these things "know" they're different. From the perspective of the children, however, there is no difference between a belief in fairies and a belief in God. In both cases, they are defending perspectives they "know" to be true. Regardless of the children's awareness of the underlying truth of the beliefs, the importance of the belief in question should, IMO, be factored into how the discussion is treated. I would not want my child's teacher to treat belief in the divine as if it were on the same level as belief in fictional fairy stories. Even if the teacher believes that my religion is tantamount to fiction, the importance other religious belief/non-belief is assigned in the reasonable person's life should afford it greater respect than a difference of opinion on other matters, like the existence of fictional creatures. I would have wanted the teacher to acknowledge that fairies are imaginary creatures, but that it is perfectly acceptable to engage in pretend play that they're real. For a difference in religious opinion in a multi-faith environment, I think along the lines of blackcat. In a single-faith school, I'd want a message consistent with the beliefs of the religion. Again, I think this is totally patronizing. How are your beliefs in the divine any different from another's beliefs in fairies. Ask any athiest? To them your beliefs are no different. And they have history that shows how the bible was changed to suit the political strategies of the times. Fairies have been unchanged since the time of Merlin I think... I suspect Disney etc changed fairies a bit. The ones in old stories seemed a little darker. Anyway the adult probably didn't handle it very well but the issue is your daughter's school experience which probably won't be helped by trying to convince the adult that they should have handled it differently.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,498
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,498 |
"I've never seen one, but they could exist. I can't prove it either way" seems pretty balanced to me. Siding against the kid who's crying seems a bit harsh. Having worked with groups of children, I can also imagine that this staff member went home and slapped herself repeatedly on the forehead, wishing she had handled it differently. It *was* the sort of conversation that it would be hard to be prepared for. DeeDee
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,513 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,513 Likes: 1 |
I simply do not think saying belief in such stories are or the equivalent of religious beliefs. False dichotomy. Belief is belief. They're only different in that the adults who told them these things "know" they're different. From the perspective of the children, however, there is no difference between a belief in fairies and a belief in God. In both cases, they are defending perspectives they "know" to be true. Regardless of the children's awareness of the underlying truth of the beliefs, the importance of the belief in question should, IMO, be factored into how the discussion is treated. I would not want my child's teacher to treat belief in the divine as if it were on the same level as belief in fictional fairy stories. Even if the teacher believes that my religion is tantamount to fiction, the importance other religious belief/non-belief is assigned in the reasonable person's life should afford it greater respect than a difference of opinion on other matters, like the existence of fictional creatures. I would have wanted the teacher to acknowledge that fairies are imaginary creatures, but that it is perfectly acceptable to engage in pretend play that they're real. For a difference in religious opinion in a multi-faith environment, I think along the lines of blackcat. In a single-faith school, I'd want a message consistent with the beliefs of the religion. Again, I think this is totally patronizing. How are your beliefs in the divine any different from another's beliefs in fairies. Ask any athiest? To them your beliefs are no different. And they have history that shows how the bible was changed to suit the political strategies of the times. Fairies have been unchanged since the time of Merlin I think... Great. We can agree to disagree, both here and in future posts, Wren.
What is to give light must endure burning.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,691 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,691 Likes: 1 |
I really don't know what I said that was insulting. There is a museum based on creationism. They show humans using dinosaurs as domesticated animals. TX wants creationism instead of evolution taught. There are all kinds of religious beliefs. I have my own religious beliefs and respect others who believe something else. Looking at physical theories of time and space, (did you watch the Brian Greene series) it looks like there are multiple dimensions and time is really just a concept like physical bodies. Maybe the fairies are in a different dimension. And I am not joking. Who knows for sure.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 954
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 954 |
Wren - My son went to that museum! OMG. The husband and I about died laughing while he was explaining humans & dinosaurs living together. (He was taken by a family member that is full-on creationism). He's beginning to learn about skepticism, finally!
~amy
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,428
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,428 |
I think the point Wren is trying to make is that there is an argument to be made that a public school teacher expressing belief or nonbelief in fairies is just as appropriate or inappropriate as a teacher expressing belief or nonbelief in God. This is why "Hmm...I don't know...I can't prove it either way" is best. I can certainly see that it seems more rational to be careful about mainstream religious belief than belief in fairies...but in fact, from a truly fair POV, why? I also know people who believe in fairies, by the way. Really!
I'll point out that to a child, this all sounds equally fantastical and odd. My unchurched child went to Catholic preschool last year and was utterly mystified by some of what went on there, referring to the "cups of other people's blood" he encountered with a bit of anxiety.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,856
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,856 |
The larger point I was trying to make is that it can be just as unprofitable to argue about fairies or religion as it can be to argue "9/11 was/was not an inside job," or, "Lee Harvey Oswald did/did not act alone." Sometimes we consult the data to inform our beliefs, and sometimes we consult our beliefs to inform the data.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,428
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,428 |
Yes, and I also agree with that point. Although 5 is pretty early for this, we do talk to our kids about how people have different beliefs about such matters and feel passionately about them, etc., and arguing about them, even if you're very sure you're right, isn't likely to get you anywhere. It helps that my own DD DID used to believe in fairies.  Of course, this gets sticky when you get into matters like evolution, whether or not my child is going to hell...sigh.
|
|
|
|
|
