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    #167019 09/09/13 02:50 PM
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    gone

    Last edited by moomin; 08/09/14 08:42 AM. Reason: gone
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    Oh dear. This reminds me of some very painful experiences we had with my eldest at 5-6yrs old. A few times we bumped into a little boy she knew from school (and who we car pooled with sometimes) who was her friend at school (sometimes) but would be quite mean if he met her at a park or swimming pool and was there with other friends. We could not ever make her understand that following him around desperately trying to make him notice her and play with her was only making her more sad and him enjoy being mean even more.

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    Gently, I would encourage you to not view it as "The friend decided that DD was expendable and cut her loose." They are 5. Most of these kids barely know which shoe goes on which foot. I don't think this child likely really decided anything...she maybe just felt like doing something else that day, or was feeling like playing on the swings and your DD didn't, or...

    Anyway, the hard thing is, our kids take this stuff more seriously. My DS is also in K and is very seriously invested in making friends. He's very social and generally quite successful, but this is a big new environment and he is also in the minority racially. He is paying attention to all this social stuff with razor-sharp attention and it's very important to him. We have to talk to him about it not being a big deal if a friend wants to do something else that day, giving it more time, etc. He had a friend last year in pre-K who was a bit of a sticky burr (as in, always wanted to be with him and sometimes he wanted space) so we remind him of that.

    To me this sounds like an anxiety issue again. I know you have talked about this being an issue with her.


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    Originally Posted by ultramarina
    Gently, I would encourage you to not view it as "The friend decided that DD was expendable and cut her loose." They are 5. Most of these kids barely know which shoe goes on which foot. I don't think this child likely really decided anything...she maybe just felt like doing something else that day, or was feeling like playing on the swings and your DD didn't, or...

    I'll second ultra on this - I doubt there was serious intent on the part of the other girl either to be your dd's best friend or to ignore her for the rest of the school year. I have two dds who are now several years past kindergarten, both with different personalities - one is extremely social and is friends with everyone, the other is more of a few-close-friends type kid. When they were kindy, the majority of girls we knew (including my dds) were not putting thought and planning into relationships with other kids at school - at recess etc they were falling into play with whoever happened to be doing what they wanted to do that day. My ds, who is EG and 2e, had a tougher time with playground situations had a tough time with recess and didn't have many friends through most of early elementary (he had two close friendships develop in kindergarten but they weren't "close" the way my dds close friendships have been), and as our kids got older, those two friends started branching out and making other friends and my ds seemed to have a tough time navigating what I thought should be typical development re making new friends etc. In hindsight, I started realizing it had less to do with his giftedness and being out-of-sync re intelligence than it was related to his overall anxiety over school - which was related in a huge way to the challenge half of his "2e". Once we were able to get him into a classroom situation where he wasn't constantly under stress and once we were able to get him accommodations so that he wasn't always comparing his inability to others abilities... his anxiety went away and he was able to fit in much easier at recess etc. Now that he's in middle school and not only has a less stressful classroom situation (due to accommodations etc) he also has a much more mature self-awareness which helps him understand and navigate his challenges in a way that works much better than having to rely on parents and teachers to always have to be thinking ahead or putting out brushfires to navigate the world of the challenge part of his "e"... and he's now navigating social situations and making friends the way most neurotypical kids do.

    My dd and your ds are, of course, two completely different kids - but as um mentioned, what you describe sounds like anxiety. Eventually you will get to the root cause of the anxiety, and figure out whether or not the anxiety is secondary to some other something in your dd's life or if it's primary - whichever, you'll find a way to lessen the stressors that feed it, and in turn she will hopefully have less struggles with classroom/playground/etc friendships.

    FWIW, I think this type of thing is really common in kindergarten, particularly at the start of the school year. My kids' K-1 teachers all did one thing in the classroom that I think helped all the kids - they switched classroom seating around every few weeks, they purposely paired/grouped different sets of kids together on each different project that they did, and they made a point of being inclusive of everyone. That doesn't help directly on the playground when the teacher isn't there organizing play, but over time I felt it really helped our kids' classmates make friends with each other and not just pair off into small sets of friends.

    Best wishes,

    polarbear

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    Unfortantely this drama with the girls only gets worse. My DD was fine with kindergarten and all the girls were pretty friendly with each other, but by first grade, the cliques started, or girls started pairing up and being "best friends" and leaving other girls out. Some girls, for whatever reason, are cattier than others and do indeed decide that a certain girl is their friend one day but not the next. For kids who become very attached to their friends, it's very difficult.
    My DD has overall been pretty laid back about the situation but started having a really hard time the second half of last year. She always seemed to be upset about somebody or something going on at school. We realized that she was having issues with her ADHD and the medication. When she was on Adderall and Concerta (not at the same time), she became much more moody and hypersensitive about these situations. Now that we have her on a different med she can come home from school and say "J and S didn't want to play with me, but that's Ok, we'll play another day." So much seems to depend on their psychological state in terms of how they can deal (and also maturity--DD is now almost 8).
    The guidance counselor and school psych also go into each classroom regularly and do a "Second Steps" program to basically teach kids how to handle their emotions and be good friends to others, and I think that has helped to minimize some of the drama with the girls. I know it is difficult and wish I had some more specific suggestions. I have always advised DD that if someone doesn't want to talk or play with her, to just let it slide and find a different friend who does want to be with her. If the behavior with one particular kid is ongoing (i.e. they never seem to want to be with her), then she needs to question whether they are a friend and worth her time to pursue.

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    I think DS set up one of the mean boys in his class today. This kid was a part of a group that last year picked on DS.

    In front of the kid's grandfather, DS pleasantly said "Good morning "mean kid". How are you today?" The kid just glared. DS continued in what I know to be a very suspiciously sweet voice "I said good morning "mean kid". Are you okay?" The kid continued to glare and at that point his grandfather started scolding him.

    As we walked away, DS said "I thought that might happen. He is always rude to me but I don't know why"

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    Wow! Your posts about your daughter's battle plan to win her friend back made me want to smile then cry myself when it didn't work! I remember several years ago asking my then DS3 (he's six now) about his friend at preschool and hearing his solemn, tiny voice saying, "she's not very interested in my friendship." It was a bit heartbreaking- even with the "they're only three" perspective.
    Mine is one who does not "let things roll off his back" so we have had some sadness over hurt feelings. There isn't an easy answer-- my DS6 tends to pick one friend and stay with that person- probably due to nervousness in groups. We're dealing with it by working on his confidence and self- focusing on how he feels about himself and what he can do to grow as a person. Basically, developing the character to "be" a good friend and have authentic interests and values that would attract like minded potential pals. It's a work in progress.
    We did go down the road of parent battle plan "how to make friends at school." It was a disaster and quickly abandoned after my son disrupted class several times.

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    Originally Posted by ultramarina
    Gently, I would encourage you to not view it as "The friend decided that DD was expendable and cut her loose." They are 5.

    This was the first thing that popped into my head as well.

    Both my kids had extreme difficulty at that age - DD with the intense behaviours that you describe and DS with a complete lack of understanding of social cues and difficulties with pragmatic language (he's not on the spectrum - after extensive evaluations we've ruled this out - but I think he's somewhere near it).

    In fact, it got to the point, at the end of grade 1 when DS was 6, that I considered homeschooling him for a year so that the other kids could "forget" the damage his quirky behaviours had done. His teacher talked me out of it, saying they were making progress with him and had a plan in place next year.

    They are 9 and 10 now, and WHAT a difference. It's to the point where I'm mulling over pulling DS9 from the social skills group he's in because I don't want him missing more class time (I don't think I will - but he's so socially skilled now that I wonder how much more he can learn in the group - maybe he's like a mentor for the newer kids).

    Anyway, five was a difficult age for us, but it's gotten so much better smile

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    Yeah, the whole fairies, santa claus thing, etc. can cause a lot of problems. In my neighborhood parents actually got furious when a kid told some other kids santa wasn't real (one nasty woman referred to said child as "what a little shit!") And they were equally furious with the parent of said child who revealed the fraud because 'how dare they not conform and cause such trouble!' Made me nervous because I have a sort-of don't lie policy. I was of the mind that if older DS point blank asked if Santa (for example) were real I would tell him the truth but otherwise it was a don't ask don't tell policy. But I also didn't play santa up all that much ( I don't do elf on the shelf or any of the threatening if you're not blindly obedient santa won't come, etc.) Anyway, Ds was okay with santa for about a year but he's smart and naturally questioning and a critical thinker - I guess he was about late three when he skeptically point blank asked me. We had a long talk about it and how he shouldn't tell other kids that believe b/c it's fun for them and their families and it's their culture, etc. I explained how I wanted him to always be able to trust me and that's why I had decided if he asked I would of course not lie to him. My younger DS is more of a believer... I told older DS he is not say anything until the time is right - ie when younger DS asks (which appears will be quite awhile) or some other signs. I am more nervous theat younger DS will not have the same restraint from revealing the fraud as older DS. I try to use Indian people in our community and Jewish people as a model - I talked with them about how they handle "not ruining it" for the kids whose culture is built on this stuff and that was helpful.

    Anyway, I feel you... your situation has always been a bit of a fear of mine... Fortunately we've been able to side-step it for now.

    Last edited by Irena; 09/12/13 07:07 AM.
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    I think a gentle reminder to always respect others' beliefs (even if they seem ridiculous to her or are different than what she has been taught at home) is in order. Be it religious beliefs, Santa Claus, or whatever. If another kid asks her if she believes in fairies, or Santa Claus, she can say no. But there is really no reason for her to bring the topic up, or to elaborate on her own beliefs or get into an argument about it. The same social norms apply to adults. Unless I know someone well and they are a good friend, I'm not even going to bring up the topic of religion, for instance.

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