Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Advice needed on very difficult teacher

This is a false dichotomy.

I have seen capricious/unpredictable teachers who were VERY caring. But they are still quite heavy-handed at times, and downright toxic for kids who need low-key predictability in an educator. My daughter finds a teacher who changes his/her mind to not necessarily be a bad thing, actually. "OH, sorry-- I decided that the assignment was too inflexible as it was. Or-- I thought about it and decided that I didn't want students to pick from their own examples there, they needed to think about the three presented in class instead." Both are fine as long as the communication of changes in expectations are clear. (Though they wouldn't be for all students, I realize.)

I've also seen teachers who were very inflexible and yet still quite open about that-- who really DID NOT care a whole lot about students as individuals. They saw their OWN needs as absolute, and those of students as paltry considerations by comparison. "Why should I write a make-up final for you just because you were in an auto accident?"

So I agree that the two things may not correlate well all the time.

I've read that employers of high school graduates may require a diploma but rarely ask for and evaluate the high school transcript, or ask for test scores (even students who don't take the SAT or ACT have state NCLB scores), which they would do if they cared about what students had actually learned. Therefore a high school diploma is largely a marker of conformity. Treating it this way may be rational. Dunkin Donuts (to use a Massachusetts example) does not need its employees to solve algebra problems or write essays, but they do need to be pleasant and punctual.

It isn't explicitly stated because it is SO ingrained in the institutional framework they don't have to say it. Why do schools have bells/buzzers? Because factories did (do). Why is standing in line/taking turns so important in elementary school? Because that is the type of behavior needed by employers. Someone who respects authority and follows directions. Now they say they want critical thinking and "21st century" skills, but in practice it seems that they still value form over content.


This.

Ugh, this topic always depresses me. Val, I don't have any advice better than what you've already received, but I hope the meeting goes better than expected.

Val - first of all, my sympathies - this is a bad situation.

There is great, very nuanced and balanced, tactical advice in this thread.

My take on the situation is this.

If nothing is changed, this teacher will harm your daughter.

(Especially, IMO, because your child is a 'pleaser' (that is, it is important for her to 'be a good citizen',etc.). A nonconformist child would probably cause the situation to explode, while a 'pleaser' would suffer internally.)

One year would be bad enough, but 4 years is really aggravating.

In addition, this subject is an area of interest/strength for your daughter.

I could consciously throw an area in which a child is not interested under the bus (which I admit I do), but it is critical for the areas of interest to be protected (to be 'safe havens').

There are interesting details in the second part of your post that give some hope that there may be a way out. I'd really try to see what this teacher is - if she would care about your child's well-being (even if she understands 'well-being' differently - which she might), and, secondly, what is her motivation. (The answer to the first question would drive further considerations, and the answer to the second is just very useful. I apologize if this is too basic, but basic things do get overlooked in the heat of the moment.)

I wish you good luck and enough strength and wits to resolve this.

P. S. My first thought (and, incidentally, the first reply in this thread) was about some kind of partial homeschooling or independent study.

I'd look into CA state (peculiar) regulations on 'parent's choice of schooling'. I suspect you would need the school's good will for any kind of 'partial schooling' (and you mentioned that you do not expect that the principal would help).

Quick question: DD is in 5th grade. Ms. T. expects them to take precise lesson notes while she lectures and writes stuff on the white board. This is the basis of what they use for homework.

Is age ten-ish too young for that expectation? I want to say that my hand was still getting tired and sore from lots of writing at that age. I'm also not sure I would have been able to take decent notes. I remember a couple of teachers talking about how to take notes at the beginning of seventh grade. In fifth grade we were still learning how to draw a margin, write short essay answers to a series of questions, and skip lines between them.

But I'm only one person. What do all of you wise people think?

I vote challenging, but not frankly unreasonable. DS9 has that kind of expectation on him, new in the last year, but I get the impression that not everyone in his class can really do it yet. It would surprise me if your DD were the only 10yo having trouble with that, but it would not surprise me if a good majority can rise to it.

Hmmmm-- 5th grade. In terms of on-level expectations? Or accelerated ones?


I think Colinsmum is probably correct developmentally-- this is about the age at which my DD started having the CAPACITY to take notes, though they were not always thorough/good.

Back in 5th grade... hmm... yeah, this would have been on the VERY high end of the expectations.

I'm pretty sure that not even DD's Algebra I teacher really had this expectation of her... but this is confusing for me personally given the lack of directly comparable features in our model versus yours, and in the similar age but not class level.

(DD was enrolled in high school algebra at 9, so not really comparable in terms of expectations, which, to be clear-- we and the teacher both offered to scaffold somewhat due to asynchrony and age.)

I'm trying to think when note-taking became an EXPECTATION in other classes. About 7th-8th grade, really. Oh, sure, they taught the skill at about 6th grade, but not all of the 11-13yo cohort was really capable at that age.

Thanks for the replies. All the kids are expected to take notes in math class. They aren't splitting into advanced/regular until next week. I'm actually trying to understand if this expectation is reasonable for all of them at that age.

Is there going to be a primary textbook? I'd be worried about this even more than about the age-appropriateness.

- Is your child going to be graded on note-taking? (This is a math class.)
- What if your daughter misses the class?
- What if you see something wrong/strange in your daughter's notes? (This could be the 'teacher's way' - or it could be a failure to take 'precise notes'.)
(In the last 2 cases I guess you'll need to find another excellent note taker in the class.)