Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Advice needed on very difficult teacher

MoN - I was waiting to see what your take on this would be because you are really good at projecting the impression that you are assuming positive intent.

Absolutely.

This (seriously) is exactly what took place with my DD's biology teacher.

My DD was so horrified that she then failed to report additional bullying (?) within the class until much later on-- because she was afraid of what ELSE might happen if I intervened again.

Additional note, here-- this was a teacher that had the reputation among her colleagues of being "nice" and "caring" and "collegial."

But it was crystal clear that such respectful and engaging interaction didn't extend to the brightest students in her honors class.

I did (gently) suggest that perhaps that was NOT a good fit for Ms. B(iology), ultimately-- that I was concerned about the tenor of that learning environment from a more global perspective, but that ultimately, I was drawing a line in the sand w/r/t my own child.

It's the one and only time in 8 years that I have EVER done that to the school. I think that they listened to me because:

a) I wasn't the only parent complaining-- in fact, I was among the more reasonable ones, since I didn't actually HAVE a lit torch or pitchfork...

b) I had a long history of being "easy to work with" for teachers

c) my DD was still doing (reasonably) well in the course material, in spite of fairly spiteful/subjective and capricious grading... about 93%.


If you can avoid escalation here, that will be best, I think... because you don't have a lot of those factors in your favor, from what you've said.

IT'S AN AMBUSH!!!

Seriously. This woman has spent some time collecting information and marshalling her thoughts before she reached out and scheduled this meeting. You're going in cold. This puts you at an immediate disadvantage. And honestly, I think that's the way she wants it. There's a pattern in her behaviors, and it screams, "Control freak!"

The thing about control freaks is that arguing with them is futile. They don't listen to your side. They only argue for one reason... to win.

So, based on these assumptions, here's how I'd approach this meeting:

- I'd accept that this is the discovery meeting. I'd listen, ask questions, etc. And I would commit to ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Anytime she asked for any kind of decision, I would defer in some way. "I need to talk with DD." "I need to talk this over with my spouse." "We'll look into this." Etc. If she presses, I would say we can revisit this topic at another meeting in a couple of weeks.

And if she has any problem with it, I would remind her that I knew nothing of the content of the meeting beforehand, so this is the first I'd heard of any issues (even if it wasn't). This problem could have been avoided if she'd told me what the meeting was about.

- Likewise, I would argue about nothing. Even a statement as seemingly innocuous as, "We don't see that kind of behavior at home" can be interpreted by a control freak as, "YOU LIE!!" In the interest of preventing the relationship from going south immediately, I'd just listen.

Wow. I always like to start going in to meeting like this like Columbo. Play dumb, see what it's all about, ask a few questions without trying to sound accusatory. This sounds like a person who will be extremely defensive. But there's always the teeniest tiniest chance that she's calling a meeting to ask your advice or to give you some great news like "we're thinking of bringing in a tutor". Well, maybe not, but I always like to think there might be some hidden bright side.

If you have the time and willingness, I would have a backup plan of homeschooling her math while she's at this school. I agree with whoever said she sounds like a passion killer. And think how stressful it must be to your DD to know that she has 3 or 4 more years of this woman for math? I was a teacher pleaser too, but I was still terrified and unhappy with the strict nuns I had for some classes, and it stressed me out.

"Thank you for explaining..."


"I appreciate learning about..." (her opinion, reports about classroom, etc.)

"It is good to hear your perspective..."

those are all more-or-less TRUE and positive or neutral-language statements that encourage communication without committing you to anything and, just as importantly, without implying agreement. They are good ways to avoid escalation-- and if MoN is correct, they'll draw out the positive side of the teacher.

On the other hand, if I am right about it, then at least they'll allow you to see just how far down the rabbit hole things go.

Good luck.

Thanks for all the great advice. These comments have really helped reduce my stress levels.

I agree that she's a passion killer, but suspect that she doesn't know it. TBH, I think she's being driven by more than just personality traits. Which makes her behavior less a choice than it might otherwise be, if you see what I mean. But I don't know. I'm only hypothesizing based on what I've seen of her and how she speaks (e.g. she told the parents that although the other teachers will answer emails if we send them after 4 p.m., she won't because she's "ignoring us.").

She did mention that she has trouble seeing, and I'm sympathetic to that. But if the vision problem was significant, I doubt she would have noticed that DD didn't draw "complete arrows" on number lines on her homework on day two. That's a fine detail. And of course, she made DD redo all those problems. Nor does vision explain the note on DD's homework saying an means one.

Taken as a whole, Ms. T.'s behaviors are making me wonder if the problem is hardwired. This makes it easier to understand and much harder to deal with.

So I'll go into the meeting and play detective/just listen. If she wants to put DD in the slower moving group, I'll have to be assertive, though. But when and how is the question there. Again, advice welcome.

Again, THANK YOU.

I'm going to defend Mrs T.

How often does this forum have threads about how to get our kids to do their work carefully and check their work for errors? These are skills that need to be learned.

She sounds like my Mrs Cooper. I had her for prealgebra and algebra. She was old, shriveled (too much time on the tanning bed), and had a horrid smoker's cough. She'd also bring her dog on days with faculty meetings. The dog would walk around on our desks during class. But I digress.

She was rigid to an extreme. She was not mean, and she had an understanding of how frustrating it could be to be in her class, but following her rigid methods allowed me to get the answer right every single time. I stopped making careless errors, because it wasn't something that would happen following her rules.

It was a frustrating two years. However, I don't make errors in math any longer. I'm finding myself wishing my kids could take math from Mrs Cooper, because they'd learn to show their work, learn that they can meet very high expectations,and learn the math inside out and sideways.

I'm about to head to my graduate level geophysics class to return homework, and I will try to teach the students about the ways of Mrs Cooper.

Give her the benefit of the doubt for now and see how it goes.

Remember that I wrote this in my first message:


My oldest son's homework is so gorgeous, teachers comment on it. This is due to a combination of me pushing him and his innate abilities in that regard. DD shares these abilities. But she is 9 and he is 13, and as I said, I think Ms. T. goes way too far. Sometimes when the details get too much emphasis, the student loses the ability to see the big picture.

I had this teacher in middle school...well, not exactly, my teacher should be retired by now.

When I look back at my schooling, it is that middle school math teacher and some situations that occured with her, that I regret most deeply in my education. Thank you for being an advocate for your child.

Because of my inability to conform to her expectations, I was given a "C" in one marking period, even though I scored 99% for that marking period on my tests. This single "C" resulted in me being held back in math the following year, which put me so far behind my peers in math that I was unable to qualify for Calculus as a high school senior...again, even though demonstrating a capability. This then created issues in college math classes. As a middle school student, I had no idea that this one "mistake" would cost me so much over the long term.

I share this to emphasize the importance of your advocacy for your DD. Part of this advocacy is having a full understanding of how the school's math system works through graduation and some options to get around potential barriers. I wish you the best of luck as you figure this out.

SO sorry you are dealing with this for your 9 yr old!! I would want my child out of that class any way possible (though mine is a 2e kiddo who could never meet many of her requirements no matter how he tried). I like the suggestion of EPGY or some other math program if you can get the school to go for it. Hope you have good news to share down the line... Any hope the teacher will retire?