Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Advice needed on very difficult teacher

My child has a very strict math teacher this year who wants to talk to me on Thursday. Some background information follows; any advice in how best to interact with her would greatly appreciated.

About DD: Grade skipped, talented at mathematics. I reviewed last year's stuff with her in about ten days before school started, and threw in some new stuff, including basic algebra. Grade level-stuff seems to be almost trivial to learn (sometimes she cuts off my explanation and finishes it for me). She gets the algebra and enjoys it. We're working from the Brown high school textbook. So, it's the real thing. She a very sensitive girl and is a teacher-pleaser.

Teacher (I'll call her Ms T. for Ms. Teacher): Her expectations are, well, odd. Examples:

• On day 4 of school, DD was in study hall during after-school care. She showed her math homework to Ms T., who said it was "all correct" but made her do it again because DD used "the wrong kind of paper."
• A problem on Thursday's assignment was marked incorrect because of a hyphenation error. Part of the answer was "thousandths." DD ran hyphenated the word as "thousand-ths." Ms. T. wrote "hyphenate only between syllables" and made DD redo the problem.
• Ms. T. corrects homework and returns it on the day it was handed in. If a student doesn't write the date on an assignment, she gives it a zero.
• Answers must be written below the line where work appeared. If they are written to the right of the work (or circled below it), the problem is marked incorrect and must be redone.
• Students must solve problems using the method taught by Ms. T. She acknowledges that "there are many ways to solve problems, but in my classroom, you do it my way." Ms. T. announced this policy at back-to-school night.

This is only a sample of Ms. T.'s rules. There are more. Many more.

This woman is the middle school math teacher and has been assigned to teach the 5th grade this year. That means four years of her for my DD. To her credit, DD sees much of this stuff. But she also says that focusing on all of Ms. T.'s rules is making her stressed and making it hard to focus on the actual mathematics. She was crying about it all on Friday.

I get the need for tidiness in math and encourage it very strongly with all my kids. But IMO, Ms. T. goes way too far.

I'm concerned that Ms. T.'s approach will condition the kids to toe a narrow line of approach to math problems. Plus, it has the potential to instill a fear of doing something a new way. Etc.

So she wants to talk to me on Thursday. She won't tell me what it's about because "she doesn't like to have conferences via email." DD told me that Ms. T. is "on the fence about putting me in the accelerated group because I'm not learning fast enough." Her teacher last year put her in the lower group. She was forced to move her up when they started long division and it was clear that DD had already pretty much mastered it. Surprise, surprise, no drop in DD's grades. Her standardized test scores last year were a sea of 8th and 9th stanines. It isn't clear to me how they make these assessments.

So, I need advice on how to interact with this person. Assume there will be no support from the principal. Also, there is no other math teacher. I'm thinking of suggesting that DD work with me at home and do assignments I give at school. Don't know if they'll go for this. Also, the school in general is actually very good apart from math instruction (e.g. they start reading novels and writing essays in 4th grade, music class is to die for, etc.).

How comfortable and willing would you be part-time homeschooling your DD in math for the years in which Ms. T would be your DD's teacher?

I, personally, would be put off by Ms. T's prohibition against solving problems by any means other than those she teaches. That doctrinaire attitude flies in the face of what it means to think, mathematically or otherwise. I see no satisfactory workaround to that attitude, even if you could negotiate concessions with her on her other administrative, err, quirks.

And not revealing the agenda for her meeting request? Unprofessional. She owes you the courtesy to be an informed and prepared participant.

I would use the meeting as a fact-finding opportunity. Why is she employing her methods? How does she respond to intelligent and constructive feedback?

I have no advice but this Ms T's style seems like a 'passion killer'. She seems way too focused on the 'how' without due consideration for developing a deeper understanding of the 'why'. What on Earth does the wrong paper or grammar have to do with whether or not a kid has a solid conceptual grasp of the subject matter?

A teacher like Ms T really gives credence to the proverbial 'teaching' because she cannot 'do it'. In your shoes, I would not be optimistic about her letting your daughter do different work - nothing I see in what you have written leads me to think that Ms T is flexible or even has much imagination, frankly. I would already be thinking about things to do with my DD outside of school to keep her love of learning Maths alive. But 4 years is a long time - eek.

Looking forward to seeing what sage advice others far more politically savvy than I have to offer. I cannot help thinking that but for the grace of God there goes my DD...

Will they allow her to NOT take a math block?

That is, can you cover it via EPGY at home?


Honestly, if you think you can sell it that way, I'd even be (somewhat) okay with them labeling my child as a hothouse flower who "lacks the maturity" for Ms. T because of the grade skip.

I think your concern is on-target.

Ugh. That reminds me of my sixth grade science teacher. He had us copy definitions out of the book. The work had to be single spaced and done in ink. It had to be perfect. Erasable ink pens were not allowed. White out was not allowed. If you messed up on the last line you had to start over or get a zero.

He would read aloud a chapter summary. Make us do the silly definition drill and then give an open book test.

I don't remember him teaching us any science. I do remember him one day telling us that the most important thing he wanted us to learn from his class was this:

When we grow up and have mortgages our lives will be a lot better if at the very beginning when we make our first payment we add a few hundred a month to the principal and continue to do that until our house is paid off.

It is great advice and obviously it stuck with me but in retrospect I think the guy was going bonkers.

The rigidity is a cover for incompetence. She must be very insecure if she doesn't know how to grade a wide variety of methods and approaches to a problem.

I think I would've successfully gotten an F with either of those teachers and passed into full jadedness. My only suggestion would be to take very good notes in the meeting and spite her email aversion with an email summary of the discussion and copy someone and asked her to confirm the content if it goes negative. And if she is as bad in person, whatever you do, don't smack her (physically or verblly :))

Good advice.

HK and I are thinking on the same wavelength with EPGY.

Agree with aquinas and 22b - she's discouraging thinking and trying to spare herself thinking, which strongly suggests incompetence. No support from the principal? Really? Even if these examples are literally true?

Also, I don't attend meetings with people who don't tell me what they're about. The only exception would be if that person had direct authority over me at work (where noone would dream of such discourtesy!) so that I couldn't refuse.

Assuming you've already agreed to the meeting, yes, listen, and then do whatever it takes to get your DD out of there.

In general, I have not had success in reasoning with people who's values sit so far from my own. For these people, I do not attempt to find common ground or to work towards a moment when favors might be asked. I am just polite the way I would be with religious viewpoints. People with eccentric practices are generally eccentric.

This teacher has called a meeting because they have something they wish to unload onto you. I would go, be courteous, and listen to them, thank them for their opinions, and go home without getting into any discussion about what would benefit your DD, just like MON above says. It is not the moment to discuss exempting your child from their class or altering it in any way so that your DD can maintain her love of the subject. The teacher may not have much ability to imagine the experience of others, as dominated as she is by her own viewpoints.

I agree with MON that the teacher cares, but I'm not fully clear on what as again the values are so different from my own. I would hesitate to make assumptions. She might feel angry about skips in general and be looking for ways to punish your child for it in some passive aggressive sort of way. Or might genuinely believe in some misplaced yet honorable sort of way that her impact on punctuation etc will improve your DD. She may have forgotten why she marks off for those errors and is simply in the rut of a burnt out teacher. One might talk to other parents to gain more insight into the teacher, but I wouldn't ask her directly.

Short term I would work on your DD to help her understand that some teachers are eccentric or picky and how to tolerate that without feeling upset. She is old enough to understand that some people have very different ideas of perfection than her (or your) own. If she brings home work that has to be recopied due to simple pickiness on the teacher's part, let her do it while watching TV or while listening to music if she's still able to work that way. Try to show not to take it so seriously, yet still to do it to the teacher's specifications.

As time goes by you could begin making vague inquiries to the administration about the precedent etc for partial homeschooling or independent on site study or whatever other options you come up with, initially not mentioning a specific subject if possible.

Have an alternate plan in place before you make any conversation with the teacher about improving the experience, lest she be crazy enough to feel offended and take that out on your DD.

Considering it's potentially a 4 year problem it is worth approaching extremely slowly and cautiously.