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    Joined: May 2010
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    Originally Posted by Val
    Originally Posted by JollyGG
    They looked at me and said, well most our students start K already reading.

    Well duh. They've had 3 years of school. Mine had had none.

    Hmm. In a situation like this, one needs to probe them for a definition of reading. I suspect that their definition is something like, "Can sound out one-syllable words like cat and sat and stop and recognizes a few sight words," as opposed to "stopped sounding out words long ago and reads books alone."

    He's in 6th grade now, so we are long past those days. =)
    It was frustrating at the time, but we did end up getting the changes we needed to see.

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    Originally Posted by CCN
    We had the opposite of red shirting with DD10 - she's a late November birthday (and here the cut off is calendar year) so she started KG when she was still four. She was very, very sensitive, shy and emotionally not really ready. I felt very stuck though because she was already way above grade level and I couldn't imagine holding her back and creating an even bigger gap.

    Now, though, I'm wondering if we had done exactly that - held her back to allow for some emotional maturation - and then accelerated her once she started school - maybe that would have been better? I guess we'll never know.

    I have heard that sending them to K and then skipping 1st is a better strategy than skipping K or doing early entry. 1st (and 2nd) seem such wasted years anyway, they don't learn much at all.

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    Quote
    It was frustrating at the time, but we did end up getting the changes we needed to see.


    Whereas we were never going to, here in Lake Wobegon, where ALL the children are above average, and boy-- parents are VERY determined to keep it that way. wink (SO grateful to that kindergarten teacher who told us to homeschool and NOT enroll DD in kindy.)

    I figured it out when the ONE other child we knew who was actually reading-reading was in "the top reading group, just like my N" during Kindergarten (oh, and N was redshirted-- surprise!) according to a close family friend.

    Uhhhh.. yeah-- "top reading group" was the one that knew the phonemes completely, apparently, and was working on decoding skills and sight words using Dolch cards. This was an excellent fit for N. Not so much for P, another child who was "reading going in."

    This other child was reading Beverly Cleary novels. Mine was well into Harry Potter. You know-- sustained silent reading-- for hours. Unprompted. The books that N would not be tackling until FOURTH GRADE (or beyond).

    Neither of the two genuine readers was redshirted. The other child is a rather sad story, I'm afraid. No, she didn't "even out" by third grade... but by high school, she has definitely tuned out and has taken an "opting out" path. It makes me so sad to think of that child. frown






    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
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    I have heard that sending them to K and then skipping 1st is a better strategy than skipping K or doing early entry. 1st (and 2nd) seem such wasted years anyway, they don't learn much at all. [/quote]

    Interesting

    Can anyone point to research comparing these approaches or have experiences to share about early entrancing? I would've thought that early entry might be less disruptive than skipping a grade in terms of friendship development and continuity, but then again depending on social skills and maturation (physical, communication, emotional..) I can see how it could work the other way around. I'm also curious to hear about boys and girls experiences with acceleration and retention models. I've heard more parents of boys talk about concerns related to kindergarten readiness than parents of girls, but feel like I know just as many busy, creative and motivated girls. Just curious - starting to explore options for DS3.5 for next year.

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    I very much believe that it depends on individual circumstance, too-- BUT-- I see an awful lot of parents locally doing it merely because of pop culture references to research (like in Outliers), and because everyone ELSE does it.

    There are certainly children who aren't ready at five.

    But then the question ought to be-- ready for WHAT?

    No guarantee that such children will be MORE suited for it at 6 or 7, either, if you see what I mean.


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    I thought the evidence supported early entry as a sound option?

    Having had a daughter be devastated to be left behind in preschool when her peers went to K (many of them less ready on all fronts), Who then did some K at the allotted time, and THEN skipped. I so SO wish she could have just gone to K when she was ready and avoided the skip. She's lost her entire cohort of friends and had to start from scratch every single year since she was 4.5 yrs old, it's not been ideal at all.

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    I am reading "Teaching your children well" and it talks about accepting your child and they will reach success wherever their path lies. But I think that really doesn't always happen and how do you help your child become a lower income person, who may never be able to buy a house in a good neighborhood or support a family. 50 years ago, blue collar workers had great union jobs and could buy nice houses.
    I feel very lucky that my kid has the IQ and talents she has, she has plenty of options. I don't know what I would do if she didn't. I know that I would want to give her as many options as possible. If that meant redshirting, I probably would. I am trying to accelerate her, so I am not accepting of the situation based on her needs.

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    For my PG DD, who entered K at 4, discovering that a good half her classmates were entering K at 6 worked in her favor-it meant at least a couple of other kids could read and therefore the teacher was used to having them do AR and read independently instead of doing the boring phonics lessons. She was STILL the most advanced in the room, but she at least wasn't the only one who had her own packet of math pages and her own book in her chair pocket.

    I will say, though-the fact that she was 2 years younger than most of her classmates (she'd been early entered and was only born 8 weeks before the cutoff date) did play into deciding to homeschool-because PE and the playground were total nightmares for her. She was just plain too little and too young motor-skills wise to keep up, and the PE teacher had the attitude that she should just be able to keep up with 6.5 to 7 yr olds as an older 4/young 5 yr old. DD spent a lot of PE classes in tears, furthering the PE teacher's perception that she should never have been allowed to enter early in the first place.

    I also noticed, when DD did the EXPLORE last year, just how BIG the kids were. She was taking it at 3rd, in a Duke TIPS area where almost no 3rd graders take it, and was a young for grade 3rd grader, and in talking to the parents, a lot of these "gifted" kids were a year older than expected for their grade.
    She still scored very, very high compared to 3rd graders-or 8th graders, for that matter.




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    DH was just telling me how he thought the best grade for DS would be kindergarten, but one in which he could learn 4th+ grade material. Academically he was "ready" for kindergarten long before he was 5. Socially and emotionally (and maybe physically), not so much. smile

    I decided against signing up for a local homeschool PE class, in part because he'd be grouped with the 8-18 year olds (eek!) instead of the 5-7 year olds. I suppose I could have asked to redshirt him, but decided it wasn't worth it.


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    Originally Posted by MumOfThree
    I thought the evidence supported early entry as a sound option?

    Having had a daughter be devastated to be left behind in preschool when her peers went to K (many of them less ready on all fronts), Who then did some K at the allotted time, and THEN skipped. I so SO wish she could have just gone to K when she was ready and avoided the skip. She's lost her entire cohort of friends and had to start from scratch every single year since she was 4.5 yrs old, it's not been ideal at all.

    In our (smallest school in the) district there would be 4-6 classes in each grade level. The odds of being in the same class with a particular friend from the year before are low. No one from preschool went to the same school. It's not a possibility that even comes up on my radar.

    We were making the decision for a boy, but even for a girl there are age-based differences in interests and maturity (and politics! Save me from girl politics!). I know quite a few H and PG kids and there are very few who really blend with older kids. My children, for example, talk sophisticated talk, but really are spot on developmentally. I figure that the older they are when they have to blend with older kids, the better they'll be able to. K is also very different from 1st here. Both are wildly academically inappropriate, but K has half a day of play, the teacher expects the kids to be learning to sit still, etc. It's just more relaxed and fun, whereas 1st is lots of serious sitting at desks. Given a choice, I'd choose to do K and skip 1st. Likewise, skipping a year of preschool (fun play) for a year of boring inappropriate academics is not something I'd choose for my kids. I have to qualify this, though, they're more than a year ahead, always have been, and we use 100% play based preschool.

    Jenna, I've got this impression from avidly reading every K/1st skip thread on here over the last few years, I'm not sure what search terms would help. Maybe a new thread asking for ideas and experiences?

    Originally Posted by Wren
    I am reading "Teaching your children well" and it talks about accepting your child and they will reach success wherever their path lies. But I think that really doesn't always happen and how do you help your child become a lower income person, who may never be able to buy a house in a good neighborhood or support a family. 50 years ago, blue collar workers had great union jobs and could buy nice houses.
    I feel very lucky that my kid has the IQ and talents she has, she has plenty of options. I don't know what I would do if she didn't. I know that I would want to give her as many options as possible. If that meant redshirting, I probably would. I am trying to accelerate her, so I am not accepting of the situation based on her needs.

    Same way you prepare any child for adulthood. Teach them to be kind and good, help them earn how to make good choices, gather information, make decisions, communicate with experts.

    Last edited by Tallulah; 08/24/13 08:02 PM.
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