Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Questions and doubts about giftedness

I would consider my DS7 to be a bright child not gifted. When he was 6 years my husband and I decided to test him because mainly I was in denial on his development, my husband thinks that DS is gifted. DS took WISC-III when he turned 6 and his FSIQ is 150. I homeschooled him for K and 1st grade, then he went to a private school for 2nd grade. For the entrance test he was given WIAT-III and he scored 143. We are happy with the school but he prefers to be homeschooled again especially since his sister is, so he will be back home for 3rd grade. He seemed to be a very happy adjusted little boy and my only main concern is that we fully engage and challenged him. This may sound like a stupid question, but is it possible for someone with his IQ is just a bright kid, not gifted? I guess I�m having a hard time seeing the giftedness in him nowadays since he is only working 1 grade ahead in math. I read in the forum about many children with incredible accomplishments starting at a very young age. Our DS seemed to be doing a little bit out of norm when he was younger, but now I�m not sure that he is that much ahead. He is curious and eager to learn a lot of different things but nothing interests him so much to keep him interested in one thing and to do an in depth study on it. Is it possible that he is just another bright kid, a fast learner? His math is supposed to be his strength but now he seemed to lose interest in it and complained that it is hard, mind you it�s only 1 grade ahead. I know that he understands the concepts but doesn�t want to do the problem when it�s presented in bigger numbers. Do you think we would benefit from enrolling in DYS? I get the impression, maybe a wrong one, that DYS is more for parents with PG kids? If you think we should try enrolling in DYS, do you think we should have him retake the WIAT or maybe a different test to get a better result? I don�t think I can come up with a good portfolio material showing him working at 2/3 grade level ahead. What is considered total math? Under composite Score Summary, there is Mathematics which he scored 155 and Math Fluency 107. Are both numbers being used as total math? If so he won�t qualify for DYS with that number. Any advice or encouragement would be appreciated. Thank you.

Honey... his IQ is 150. That's.... massively rare and practically off the charts. It's unlikely he'll ever come across another child his own age within a full standard deviation of his IQ - that's how rare it is. He couldn't have guessed his way to that IQ. Your son is PROFOUNDLY gifted. Full stop.

Now, as for his performance in school/academics - that's not always going to correlate directly to IQ. Achievement is a combination of exposure and effort. His lack of desire to do anything "hard" is something very common (at least on these boards, it seems) among kids who are under challenged in school - they develop a sense of perfectionism. "This is easy, I should get a 100/A." At this point in life, he's probably hardly learned anything from an actual teacher. He's capable of absorbing things like a sponge and understanding them immediately. I think home-schooling him and getting him to do challenging work is an excellent idea. He doesn't have to be working at any specific grade level - he just needs to be learning and understanding what it means to put in actual effort in his schooling.

Applying for DYS is a good idea if you are looking for support and another perspective. Please note though that you will have to get him a valid IQ test with qualifying scores. The WISC-III was replaced a decade ago by the WISC-IV, which will be replaced soon by the WISC-V. I am not sure how a 150 on WISC-III translates to a current IQ score or whether it should be translated.

Your WIAT-III score of 143 is closed to the minimum threshold of 145 so another option is to use that with a portfolio. It appears that DYS sometimes accepts applicants who have scores that are below the minimum threshold.

Basically everyone in my gifted pullout class was within "a standard deviation of 150." since you only became eligible at 135 and I don't recall anyone who was significantly below 140 (since we eventually compared IQ scores).

There were plenty of us, generally 140+, IIRC.

Isn't 150 only at about 99.9?

He's gifted.

It's really not possible that he's not gifted.

He's above standard-issue gifted at 150, but I think that there's a +/- 5 points rule or something, so he's at least a little above-standard issue gifted, which to me is about 140-145 (Honors' college at major university).

Gifted isn't about "incredible accomplishments", but it does mean that you need to keep him challenged.

YES.

My DD didn't seem that extraordinary to us until we started to apply an increasing 'load' to her cognitively... which we only did because we were curious what "all out" looked like for her.

There was only one moment before she was about 7 that really would have given her away as profoundly-gifted. She didn't overtly do anything so early that it wasn't possible to explain it as still being more or less normal. So what gave it away? HOW she learned to read, that's what. She's not an autodidact, and that is unusual among PG people. We taught her to read in a few hours (no, really) with some phonetically controlled readers (Bob books, basically-- but harder/more rich and slightly snarky storylines), and within five months or so her reading levels were middle-school and still rising rapidly.

With zero additional instruction, I mean.

THAT is what it means to not learn from 'teaching' the way most kids do. She, too, resists "hard" things, and at 14, she is a beast of a perfectionistic turkey. She won't enter competitions (which she'd be competitive at) because of a fear of "failure" and because she doesn't regard success as the result of hard work to be "authentically 'successful'" in the way that most human beings understand it.

The greatest challenge with a child like this is figuring out ways to teach them that effort is proportional to results. Because in the vast majority of age-appropriate measures, that is directly contradictory to their life experience.

Could you tell me what these books were? DS hates the Bob books and I've been looking for some good ones that are "easy but challenging".

Combination of being so gifted and being underchallenged spells trouble. (Perfectionism, among other things, and, as a consequence, everything for him either being 'too hard' or 'too easy/boring', is most common.)


The material could be just boring - plus he could be 'burned out' in general from boredom at school. (And most of math material I've seen, including well-know major programs, with very few exceptions, IS boring; 'Everyday Math' program is in addition damaging.)

Try offering 'non-standard' materials to him (*instead* of forced standard learning, at least for now, until he 'decompresses'). The following recommendations may be ahead of his chronological age, but see if he gets hooked on any of these. Most are available from the library or for free online. You could start with David Macaulay's books (they are awesome, with one-of-a kind illustrations) + "Great Source" math books + "George's ..." books.

- "The new way thing work" by David Macaulay - physics/mechanics/technology
- "The way we work" by same author - human biology
- "Asimov on chemistry" by (one and only) Isaac Asimov
- "The disappearing spoon" - chemistry
- "George's secret key to the universe", etc. by Lucy and Stephen Hawkin - physics/astronomy
- any astronomy books
- "For the love of physics" by prof. Lewin (of MIT)
- "Understanding thermodynamics" by H.C. Van Ness - physics (this may sound very advanced, but the presentation starts with 'sugar cubes being thrown out of the window', which is quite accessible)
- "Trouble with physics" by Lee Smolin

- "Great Source" reference books: "Math to know/at hand/on call" - "Algebra/geometry to go" etc.

- Nova science videos online

- "Particle physics for non-physicists" videos online

The above would work for a 'sciency' child. Other people here may suggest something for humanities.

If he likes words:
- vocabulary.com (create a (free) account for him - it is like a game).

ETA: Also what MON said: ."Great Source" math books are good in this respect because they are "reference" books (and also well illustrated) - the child may run as far ahead as he wants to and pick and choose.

Another similar book is "Math Dictionary for Kids: The Essential Guide to Math Terms, Strategies, and Tables"
by Theresa Fitzgerald. (This one is quite eclectic, AFAIR.)

Jon the way IQ scales worked when you were in school was different to current IQ scores, 150 on older tests was not the same score as 150 on a modern test. Previously they used a ratio IQ. The WISC3, as mentioned, is an older test, but not ratio IQ old, it's possible the score is a bit inflated.

Great.

That is quite possibly not good for me at all.

So now I'm going to have to research the tests to figure out what's going on.

Anybody have any good sources so that I can track changes over time? Is there some sort of "IQ calculator" out there with respect to the various tests?

I'm only concerned about the *low end* of the IQ scale. Meaning 70 and below, which is what I have to deal with on a regular basis.

I'm always comparing tests from the 1970's to the current tests and now I think I probably have a problem.