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This question is for those of you who have mathematicaly gifted kids and want to nurture that gift. What do you do? Do you make them take more math, do you challenge them more, do you make them practice math daily?
My son is very gifted in math. I think this giftedness comes from desire to understand the problem as deeply as possible. We are lucky that his current school is able to accomodate him as far as learning math goes. But what do you think should parents do? I am asking, because, when you have a talented musician you have them practice daily ( I know that because my son has to play violin for one hour each day, and soon it will be more than that - see I automatically wrote "has to") and for some reason we do not question that. We all have this understanding that in music you have to practice in order to become better. But what to do when it comes to math? Do you make them solve problems for one hour each day? What if they would rather read a book or play?
After all he is only 11. Anyone in that position?
Ania

Ania,
I think you've mentioned this one, but in case not: http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/

I've also heard good things about MathPath camp: http://www.mathpath.org/

Here's a review of a book you may find interesting: http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10281.aspx

There are also contests. Although I have a son close in age, it seems that our parenting styles are quite different, so I can't give you any advice. In our house it works better for DS10 to get Math at his level at school (a class aimed for 13 year olds) and let his hometime be for homework, music and diversions. I think that your way has many, many advantages, but it isn't in me to pull if off.
((hugs))
Trinity

Thanks Trinity - you seem to have those links up your sleeve :-)
Will check them out later tonight. Yes, we are in Arts of Problem Solving. Very advance math courses, he is learning that he can't just breeze through math anymore. Thankfuly there is dad with his expertise...
Yep, I am doing tons after school with my son and daughter, mostly because we found out early on that he could not, absolutely could not organize his own time, and when we left him to explore on his own there was tantrum after tantrum. He works best when his world is very structured (apart from his room of course, which has no structure at all but this does not seem to bother him at all;-). Slowly (he will be 12 in 3 months) I can see some changes. He does not need me to be as invloved as he used to, but still loves it when I come to school to do Math Olympiad and still keeps asking if I have already found something interesting for him to do this summer...
Also sending you hugs, Ania

Good for you Ania - you have found what works for your children! Here's another idea for camp - Think Summer Institute!
Best Wishes,
Trin

Does your son have access to a math mentor? Someone who loves math? For me it was never about an hour of extra problem solving. My love of math was encouraged by my mathematical mentor, my father. It was all about

-reading his Scientific American and talking about the articles, especially the puzzles and math
-dad teaching me Fortran so I could explore rates of converging series and then smuggling the punch cards into the computer center at a time when children didn't get access
-the puzzles and problems he wrote on church bulletins so I wouldn�t wiggle during the sermon

In other words, it was all about the small, daily interactions that fostered my interests. I realize that many parents are at a loss because math is not an interest of theirs, but maybe you could find a mentor for your son who can suggest some projects or ideas for exploration.

He just got accepted into a math circle at the U of U, generally open to 9th grade and up. We will see how it goes... Maybe his mentor is awaiting him there... I truly believe in mentoring. My husband, althought extremely good in math and physics (double post degrees) is not a mentor to him at all. He is just dad, with his ideas for science fair projects (which my sons absolutely hates, ideas, not the projects).
I also learned about his amazing AMC 8 score today! I am thrilled.
Ania

Just wanted to point your attention to something that I found on the net today:
http://www.livescience.com/humanbiology/061219_bright_minds.html
Hard work is required :-)

As for a mathematical mentor, my son really enjoys the professor he met at the Math Circle. The guy apparently has an ease of explaining even the most difficult things. When he was absent yesterday, a grad student that took his place had none of the qualities (my sons words, I did not meet either of them). It is good that DS is realizing the need to find good teachers/instructors and how important it can be in your future success. He is almost 12 now and I am seeng huge maturation steps. A few days ago, after his sickness, he packed his flight simulator (loves to fly planes, absolutely loves it!) and put it under computer desk with a comment "I am getting too frustrated that I never have time during the week to fly (well, one mission takes well over an hour), so I better wait for the weekend"
And, voila, since that time he has already read a couple of books;-)

Ania,
I have been meaning to congratulate you on your son�s amazing accomplishments in math. He seems to be progressing very well in his area of high aptitude and interest.

As, your link points out, it�s not enough to just have high potential. Hard work, appropriate instruction and opportunities differentiate those who realize their dreams and those who don�t. The continued progression through upper elementary and middle school may be one of the most difficult challenges. It is also a time that divides those who have access to higher levels of instruction and those who don�t (because of lack of money, emotional support or geographical separation).

By high school, many may have the opportunity to enroll in advanced classes, but we have to prepare our kids in the meantime or they may not make the cut (even if the were considered �profoundly gifted� as a child).

Ania,

My 11 year old is also very gifted in math. Luckily, my husband is a Professor in Biostatistics and I have a PhD in Engineering with a minor in Math/Sci Education. We supplement all of our kids' education through our daily interactions and having materials available, but don't have them "practice" math like you would practice an instrument. I do try to say "yes" when they ask me to play a game with them.

If you have the resources, I would recommend buying the kits from a school supply store to help him explore math with manipulatives. We bought a double balance scale, for example, for the kids (we have 3) to explore negative numbers and algebra. We also got the multiplication as area kit that teaches polynomials with plastic squares and rectangles. We often ask him questions, like "How does an octopus do math?" to get him interested in different bases (8 tenticles, therefore base 8). He loved Camp Invention, sponsored by the National Inventors Hall of Fame. Macalester University's Math and CS Dept has a "problem of the week" that gets us thinking. Some of our favorite games are Set, Sequence, Logic Links, Chemisty kits.

I often ask the kids to explain why they think something is true and to generalize it to further situations if they can. I think learning about Bloom's taxonomy and the kinds of questions which are in the Analysis, Synthesis, and Evaluation levels really equipped me to engage them in deeper thinking.

Sorry to rattle on. I'm feeling particularly isolated today, living in one of the bottom 3 states in education.

Peace and Joy,
Alisha

Thanks Alisha!
I am at work now but I did check out that web page and it looks interesting. Here is a link, if anyone else wants to check it out :-)

http://mathforum.org/wagon/

Ania

Thing about talented musicians is that they are allowed to excell. If they learn how to play advanced peices, they are not going to have to spend 7+ hrs a day at school working on scales and Twinkle Twinkle Little Star. SO, if you leave your child in the class your child is in, then do not throw extra work at your child. If your child is gifted at math, and he gets all the concepts quickly, and you do not intend to accelerate him from the class he is in, then do not do extra work on the side. It will not benefit him at all. If fact, it will hurt him. He will not benefit from tedious repetition and next week, and next month, and next year, will be all the worse for him because he will know the subject all the better.

Have you read the book "Genius Denied?" It is a very good book. I highly recommend it. But the main point I am trying to make is, if your child excells in violin, your child is allowed to go on to the next level and do more and learn more and go further. The only true options here would be to either leave things alone as they are or change the situation. But leaving things how they are and adding more to it will not help your child one bit.

Hi Summer70,

You give the advice not to "throw extra work at your child." What is this opinion based on?

I've seen Afterschooling work very well for many families. In my son's own class there is a boy who my son reports is very gifted, and "could have a grade skip if he wanted one," but is very satisfied to stay where he is and do each assignment above and beyond what the teachers assign, to the degree that his parents assign. There are ways in which I feel sad that I didn't think to do this early enough to make this routine for my son. Not that my DH would have gone along with that plan! But I have done some periods of Afterschooling with my son, - UnAfterschooling? - where I follow his lead and provide just a bit of incentive, as a way of getting to know him as a learner. I can't imagine how I could have advocated for him without this experience.

I think that each family and each child is different, and while I like the idea getting each child into the classroom that will meet their needs, I can see that it just doesn't always work out for every situation,

Love and More Love,
Trinity

This original topic posted by Ania is timely for our family.

I have begun to move into the �developing talent� phase in my considerations as to what is best for our kids. I would like to express thanks to the experts at the Davidson Institute and you all for guiding me toward this necessity. Thanks especially to you Ania for posting about specific programs and opportunities that you have pursued for your son and the accolades and recognition he has earned as a result of his aptitude, effort and achievement.

We have received our son�s EXPLORE results which validate that he is extremely talented in math and science when compared to 8th grade norms and also in relation to other highly talented 5th graders (whose mean generally exceeded the older students). He scored very well even though he has had minimal formal enrichment or acceleration. I find that periodic validation helps to renew my energy for advocacy. I am also inspired by the direction you all share.

My husband and I have come to the conclusion that no school in our area will provide the level of instruction that our son could handle during the next 31/2 years before high school. Our school is academically strong and offers some flexibility with subject acceleration, but I would not characterize it as a level 4 school. We do not have unlimited financial resources so we have decided to prioritize our kids intellectual pursuits above other desires. This means we are giving up a trip to Europe over the summer to pay for, drive to and spend time in far less glamorous locations around the U.S. so they can attend academic camps and we can improve our advocacy knowledge and skills.

Maybe we will see Europe with the kids next year. Thanks everyone � I think.

I think there are some great resources on this board for math talented kids...I'm jotting them down for my son. I saw an article on posted on one of the other boards I thought would be interesting, especially for Ania, since I remember your son scored very high on the SATs (I'm referencing the article and excerpting the section I found important):

Author(s): VanTassel-Baska, J.
Source: National Association for Gifted Children Gifted Child Quarterly
Volume 28


It identifies students of junior-high age who have already scored at the
95th percentile (the Johns Hopkins and Duke talent search use 97th
percentile) or higher on an ingrade standardized achievement test in their
homeschool setting to determine eligibility.
It uses the Scholastic Aptitude Test (SAT) as a second-level test to
determine level of mathematical and verbal ability.

Specific Recommendations for Students Scoring 400-520 on SAT-V and/or
SAT-M
Students scoring at these levels on the SAT can profit from special
accelerated coursework at the seventh- and/or eighth-grade level in each
respective area of aptitude. For example, a seventh grader scoring SAT-M ?
400 can handle Algebra I. In the verbal area, an SAT-V ? 400 for a seventh
grader would indicate ability to handle an intensive writing skills program,
a special critical reading program, or a high school foreign language
offering (e.g., Latin I) in less time than even other able students of their
age. Thus, the following recommendations are made:


Offer fast-paced, advanced coursework during the academic year in a
student's tested area of strength.
Provide follow-up academic counseling to encourage student involvement in
advanced coursework and to help students set educational goals.
Encourage these students to attend a summer program on a university campus
in an academic area of strength and interest.

Specific Recommendations for Students Scoring 530-650 on SAT-V and/or
SAT-M
Students scoring at these very high levels on the test should be encouraged
to participate in as many academically appropriate educational alternatives
as possible. These include but are not limited to the following:


Develop an individualized program of study in the home-school setting that
will allow these students to "test out" of content already mastered in
mathematics and/or verbal areas and to continue to progress in the content
area at a rate commensurate with their proficiency. A
diagnostic-prescriptive (D - P) teaching approach is a necessary component
of such a program.
Encourage student participation in one of the university programs that
employ a fast-paced model. Opportunities for interaction with other highly
gifted students, intensive study with high-quality faculty in a compressed
time frame, and opportunities for higher-level proficiency are important
benefits.
Provide academic counseling, especially on early access to Advanced
Placement (AP) and the possibility for grade acceleration in the span of
years from grades 7-12.

Specific Recommendations for Students Scoring 650-800 on SAT-V and/or
SAT-M
Students scoring at the highest range on the test are operating at levels
better than 80% of college-bound seniors on the same test and, therefore,
need to have additional opportunities and a more intensive program.
Recommendations for this group would include all of those listed for the
preceding range (530-650 SAT-M or V) and the following additional ones:


Investigate early admission opportunities and/or advanced standing at high
quality institutions for these students now. Early planning for the
appropriate college that may offer scholarships to outstanding students
needs to occur early.
Establish a mentorship or tutorial for such students pairing them with
outstanding adults in the community who share the ability and interest of
such students.
Provide students with easy access to career information that provides data
on high-level professional careers focusing on original research.

Ania, I found the entire article very interesting, but didn't want to reprint it here (too long and there's probably a copyright problem).

Cym

Thank you guys for all the info. I have been extremely busy with
Math Kangaroo 2007. The competition is tonight, so come tomorrow
I will finally clean my house and have more time to write :-)
Ania

<<I would not characterize it as a level 4 school.>>

What are we talking about here, I am lost. Would appreciate if someone could explain. Thanx.

Summer70 writes <<Thing about talented musicians is that they are allowed to excell. If they learn how to play advanced peices, they are not going to have to spend 7+ hrs a day at school working on scales and Twinkle Twinkle Little Star >>

I disagree with passion. When it comes to music, repetition of previously mastered material is one of the key factors in a measured progress. In fact, when it comes to practicing, teachers say that only 10% of practice time should be spend on a new piece, the rest of the time is to be spend on scales, technique practice (those boring etudes) and a constant repetition of a previously mastered material.
Having said that, I do not think that math should be practiced the same way. But kids will never be good in math problem solving unless they practice those skills. I have a very interesting story to share about this, but I am going to post it under a Math Kangaroo thread.
Ania

My reference to school TYPE (sorry) is from Deborah Ruf�s book, �Losing our Minds; Gifted Children Left Behind�.

She describes type I schools as public schools were there is much poverty, a highly mobile population and many children who are just learning English.

Type II are small public, private, or parochial schools that accept children on criteria other than just ability and achievement scores.

Type III schools have a reputation for high standardized test scores. Most parents have a higher than average education and socioeconomic background.

Type IV are public or private schools for highly gifted students were admissions are allowed based on achievement and intelligence scores.

Type V are the most accommodating for individual learning and employs ability grouping.

Thanx Delbows, I never read the book (is on this summer reading list:-)
Looks like my kids are in type V. Lucky us. We moved from
type III.
Have a great weekend guys, I am still up to my elbows in house chores.
Ania

Post deleted by Mark Dlugosz

Thanx Delbows, I never read the book (is on this summer reading list:-)
Looks like my kids are in type V. Lucky us. We moved from
type III.
Have a great weekend guys, I am still up to my elbows in house chores.
Ania