Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Age or Ability Specific Forums Pre-school Needing discipline advice, desperately

Dear all,

I am a first-time mom to a 14 month old boy who, very early on, showed signs of being different from his peers. I read many of your posts when I was at a loss at how to mother a child like him especially as I felt very alone through the first year, not wanting to sound like I was bragging/lying etc about my son's development and although I never posted, I derived much comfort from your various comments and experiences. Thank God I have a very observant and supportive pediatrician and family, so I eventually managed to squash my anxiety issues (well, somewhat ;))

I won't ramble on about his achievements but to set the stage, DS spoke his first word clearly at 7 weeks of age and now has a 40+ vocabulary, recognized all his shapes by 11 months (including more complicated ones such as decagon which he now names if shown), the entire alphabet in random order at 12 months as well as numbers 1-10. He can sleep less than we do (triple ugh), watches full length operas on tv with great interest waving his hands in tune with the music (that, he shares with his doting grandfather who has more patience than I do) and demonstrated empathy and interactive play with other children at 8 months. The only thing he's behind on milestone-wise is the fact that he still doesn't walk alone (due to an orthopedic issue which will eventually correct itself) which I selfishly see as a temporary form of relief as he already gets into EVERYTHING especially if it's dangerous, has a lid, knob, cord, socket or bolt. And it never stops...

I love him to bits but I must admit that I am totally exhausted. My husband and I both have demanding careers and the only free time we have is spent with him...which is normal but the fatigue is now even more so as we are having increasing trouble disciplining him.

Basically he understood the word no at 9 months and back then when approaching something he knew he shouldn't, stopped to look at us, then inquisitively shook his head no and waited for our confirmation. If no, he would then simply move on.

We thought AWESOME...but it was short-lived. Now he just does what he wants, giving us a cheeky smile when we tell him not to touch something and doing it anyway, looking at us provocatively dropping his food on the floor saying uh-oh with a grin, and even laughing when we cracked on day and gave him a good spanking (for info, I am generally not a supporter of corporal punishment and I hated myself afterwards but he really put himself in danger and "no" followed by physical removal from the source yielded zero results). When my husband scolds him, he blabbers right back at him with an indignant tone which at time can be downright funny (we shield our smiles of course). He also likes to scream at the top of his lungs without tears when he is irritated or sometimes, out of the blue, and cracks up right afterwards. Needless to say it makes trips to the supermarket or cafe extra pleasurable

As I mentioned before, I am a first time mom and I am probably clueless yet I honestly don't see this behavior in any of my friends' children at that age so it's a little worrisome ...but could it also be just normal toddler behavior and I just need to be patient and wait it out? do you have any advice?...We don't want to crush our little man's spirit or sunny nature but want to make sure he receives age-appropriate discipline. We, of course, don't know yet if he is gifted but we can't deny that his pace of development may play a part in his behavior.

Any ideas would be lovely...Thank you so much for your time...

Totally normal. No toddler stops and never goes back after one no. You have to pretty much wear them down until the lose interest. If you have a persistent child it can take a long. time.

This might help understand him.
http://ohioline.osu.edu/flm02/FS05.html

You just need to remain calm and consistent. Childproof your house as much as humanly possible, remove as many sources of conflict as possible, then redirect, redirect, redirect. Rather than no, go with a calm, very simple, short positive suggestion along the lines of "hat stays on" or "ouch, hot!" or "gentle hands", and physically either remove or show his hands what to do. When he's frustrated, give him a voice by saying (again, very simply) what you think the problem is. "You're angry. You want to climb the wall.".

mon and Tallulah have already given you great advice, so I'll just second/third what they have said and reassure you - this is a very very normal stage of development, and it's very very exhausting for all parents!

The only thing I'd add is you mentioned that you don't see this behavior in your friend's same-age toddlers or in other toddlers when you're out and about. When it's your child who's freaking out in the check-out line at the store or anywhere public, it can make you feel extremely self-conscious. That sooo happened with me with my first child in particular. I'd gone from having no children and being very aware when someone was in the store next to me and their child was screaming their head off and I would be thinking "why the heck don't they DO something about that!". The first time my up-until-then-very-quiet toddler went ballistic while we were shopping I just felt like the whole world was listening and I wanted to crawl into a hole and pretend I didn't know him because nothing I tried settled him down. BUT - if you really do pay attention, really look around - you'll find other parents also struggling with toddlers who are not at all acting like angels - they're out there - parents usually simply don't notice them because we're focused on our own kids. The other factor is - not all kids go through the "terrible twos" at the same time, or even at two - I have a 9 year old who is still prone to those tantrums, but she was an angel at two.

Hang in there - and enjoy your ds! Those early years fly by too fast, even though it can seem like the days drag on forever when you're in the midst of them.

Best wishes,

polarbear

Yes-- what MoN said.

Understand that most other parents, though-- and parenting advice books/experts-- have NO idea what you're up against with a HG+ child who has the memory and determination and self-awareness of a nine or ten year old, harnessed to the empathy, egocentrism, and lack of life experience of a child of this chronological age.

I'm deeply sympathetic-- this was a very lonely and frightening parenting phase for me. HG+ children can truly push their parents into places that most parents cannot even imagine, and while calling their behavior "manipulative" is mostly incorrect, since it isn't specifically goal-directed toward a particular outcome on the part of another person... they do have superhuman persistence and drive. These are not typical toddlers.

Find a way to safely be able to walk away and count to ten. Seriously. You're going to need it.

What is your childcare situation like? We found that poor childcare settings seemed to put our DD into overdrive to "make up for lost time" during the hours that she was with us. It was brutal.

I agree with this. My first, although HG and intense, was also very much a rule follower. I had no idea that kids could be as persistent as dd6 until I experienced it, and I felt (and still feel) that parents who had not parented a kid like her just did could not understand what it was like. I would encourage you to check out the book Transforming the Difficult Child. I don't like the title, but it was a big relief to me to read it. The analogy most appropriate to my dd and it sounds like yours was a Maserati with Model T breaks. I have moved away from thinking like such a behaviorist as my kids have gotten older, but one trick that did work when dd was doing something dangerous (running away in parking lots) and even the last resort of spanking didn't work, was a bag of smarties. A few times of giving her a smartie every few feet she walked with me and it was never a problem again.

The asynchrony is such a challenge. My best advice is to create a physical environment where "no" only needs to be said in emergencies. Then, harness his verbal ability and be relentlessly consistent in enforcing your few silver bullet issues. In our house, those are electricity, knives, hot cooking equipment, the street, and moving vehicles. We're now at the point that the payoff of sounding like a broken record is manifesting as DS (18mo) internalizing the party lines and self-correcting, so rest assured the effort is worthwhile. It's both eerie and reassuring to hear these lines coming from a one year old...

"Knives sharp, cut you."
"Stove hot, burn you."
"Electricity in plug, shock you."

Another strategy that works nicely is having several "stretch" activities or books on the go simultaneously. You may be surprised at the level of media required to sustain his attention...think stuff usually targeted at children 4-7. I find little idle hands are the ones getting into mischief...

HTH!

Wow does your post bring back memories!

My mother who had raised 8 very intelligent children and had 10 other grandchildren before mine was born was startled by how much my child DELIGHTED in problems (making or witnessing them). She coined the term Mr. Mischief for him somewhere around the current age of your son. He soon picked up on the term and truly delighted in it too.

The part I most tuned in to in your post was the laughing at discipline. This was an important sign for us. It is very early in your parenting career at this point so you may not follow the same path as we have, but that was an early sign for us of our son's ADHD. It is frustrating, frightening, and sometimes infuriating when your child responds that way to discipline.

We recently read a chapter in a book on ADD titled "ADD Games". One game was called "Let's Have a Problem". The chapter talked about how in order to regulate themselves they unconsciously create conflict just to feel a "normal" level of stimulation. We related very much to what we were reading. Additionally, I learned that one of my husband's brothers had also been like this. The one diagnosed as ADHD as a child. I have spent many hours commiserating with my MIL about the challenges of parenting such a child and I have been very thankful to have somebody else who truly understands.

My experience has been of a HG+ extremely verbal hyperactive child who needs less sleep than I do and is highly amused at finding anything that evokes a negative response. It is incredibly exhausting and way more than most parents could begin to relate to.

With a child like this, as others have mentioned, it is CRITICAL to remain very calm. If you lose your cool you are "feeding the beast" so to speak. It is providing the (negative) stimulation your child is hungry for and it is as addictive as a drug because in his brain he is getting the shift in neurotransmitters he needs from that reaction. This has been the number one thing I have been told by the experienced parents and professionals I have consulted.

You won't be able to be perfect in this. You will have such moments of extreme stress that you will not remain so calm but every time you do maintain your composure you have helped avoid the pattern.

The number two piece of advice has been to make self-care a priority. You have an incredibly intense life and you need to have time to renew your energy because every day is draining and overwhelming. Don't let yourself be last on the list because other needs are too pressing.

A final thing I have learned that relates to your post is that the sleep issues you mentioned are common among kids with ADD/ADHD because they need a certain about of stimulation to be ABLE to fall asleep. Most kids are the opposite: quiet, dark, still. My child NEEDS to listen to complex calming music or watch TV and never totally dark. It's been interesting reading about this difference in many ADD children (and adults). And it's been delightful getting more sleep. I wish I had known about this years ago.

So that may be more information than you are ready for but I hope it helps and provides some ideas for you moving forward. I think being aware of possible diagnoses can go a long way towards spotting them and addressing them sooner before school impacts begin to really complicate matters.

Wow ladies,

I am overwhelmed at the amazingly thorough responses I got from all of you and my husband and I have taken great comfort in reading your advice. We started applying a medley of tricks we read here immediately when we got home and drum roll, it actually worked...I used a calm CNN-like voice and explained that chewing on the computer cord will hurt him and wouldn't he rather a peice of bread as it was snack time. He hesitated for a second then put it down, took the bread and smiled...only 2 shrieks this evening. Before going back to work (I'm on night shift), i took some time and just simply talked to him, chit-chatting about stuff around the house and he was a gem...

Honestly didn't think it would work so well...so a big massive thank you!!! I now have a wealth of information just in case one of THOSE days comes back which I'm sure will, but now we feel we are better equipped. I will also look into the various books...

Oh and to Howlerkarma, we are lucky to have a good daycare center right around the corner where there are no more than 10 children in his class at a time. He goes there 3 days a week and loves it. He plays with the older children and they are always excited when he shows up, letting him lead games at times, and being generally adorable with him. The teachers are starting to ask us if DS does certain things at home because they've never seen a child that age do or like the things he engages in.

(I do sense they are not trained to identify advanced or gifted children however; I live in a country where we have very little advocacy)

So for now we have remained rather discreet about what he does as there seems to be no problem and we don't want him to be labeled.The other two days a week we alternate between the sets of grandparents and he LOVES going...

You have been so kind and I am sorry to trouble you with another question but I have never chatted before with other moms with similar kids and I am now on a roll!

When did you know that your child was "different"? Did they continue barreling through milestones, or have moments where they slowed down before regaining momentum?

And last of all I was wondering if it's possible that a kid can do things really in advance at first and then join the mean (which is totally cool with us!). Just asking as we were having a debate as a family about this...

Again thank you so very much...and have a great day!

Oh! Oh!!

I just remembered something that I did at that age that DD loved.

I got a LARGE plastic under-bed storage box, and I put about 30 lbs of split peas in it. No way was I having a sand table in the house. I'd already seen what she was capable of. LOL.

Our only rules were that the peas had to stay in the box (well, okay-- ROUGHLY-- the box was used in the kitchen where it was easy to clean them up), and that the peas DID NOT GO INTO BODY CAVITIES.

She learned that I meant that one when she pushed the boundary a couple of times and I simply picked her up, put the lid on the box, and put it away. Hey-- the thing weighed too much for her to drag it out. HA.

She loved to sit in the box and POUR the split peas into plastic containers, through a funnel, etc.

GREAT rainy-day activity when I thought I'd lose my mind.

Age appropriate discipline is definitely not spanking- even if he is in danger. Discipline means to guide and teach, and that is even easier with a gifted child.

My DS2 is also 14 months, and he is the most adventurous baby in the world. I am usually what they call a "helicopter parent", but I have learnt with my baby that he is going to be getting into everything so it's best to teach him how to be safe. Within reason: put a security gate up to block the kitchen; hold his hand when you are out, or crossing the road (if he isn't being held or isn't in a pram). In the meantime, teach him everything! "The oven is hot- ouch!" "Be gentle with the cat. See? Pat him gently". It also won't happen overnight; you need consistency. So, rather than behaving for fear of a smack, he will behave because it is ingrained in him.

And, remember, he may be gifted but he is still a baby. He is still learning in this world, and that includes mistakes.