Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Should I apply to Davidson or wait?

That was a tough adjustment in mindset for my dh and myself. Before he was in school and faced with having to use handwriting, our ds was so obviously "smart" - his intellect was obvious when he spoke, and nothing he was asked to do required handwriting, so he picked up everything in life quickly, he was happy, other adults marveled at how smart he was, and dh and I naively thought school would be a breeze I will never forget when ds had his first neuropsych eval and dh and I were meeting with the neuropsych to review her findings, and she used the word "disability" as if it was a totally normal part of our lives - I think my stomach hit the floor it fell so hard and so fast. Later as we were farther on in getting help for ds, it was just hard to wrap my head around how *much* repetition he needed for so many very simple tasks. For ds, the impact was larger than just handwriting; he didn't learn how to tie his shows until he was around 9 years old, and he's also needed intense slp therapy for help with written expression - which again, is routed in this same need to repeat repeat repeat repeat due to the lack of automaticity that is inherent in dysgraphics. It's such a weird combination of strengths and challenges.


Yes! Absolutely - we've seen wonderful, amazing progress over time. Recommendations? First recommendation is to step back and not get tied down with what you might have thought was important back when you had no idea your ds would have a handwriting challenge. We did HWOT as a first step recommended by ds' neuropsychologist, but it was a complete bomb for our ds. His hand hurt when he wrote, and he was miserable doing extra HWOT at home, so we let it go. The next step (for us) was handwriting OT, and that was very helpful for ds because he learned how to use a correct pencil grip and body posture while writing, and that helped reduce the pain he felt when writing. It also gave him legible handwriting. But - it wasn't a cure for dysgraphia, and in some ways, having legible handwriting made it even tougher to advocate for him at school. Legible was good - but his legibility was limited, it didn't continue to improve with time as other children's did. More importantly, even though it was legible his handwriting was (and is) extremely slow. So that's recommendation #2, time how long it takes your ds to write. One way to time is to have him write the full alphabet out, lower and upper case, time how long it takes, then convert it to letters per minute. You can google around to find out what is a typical letters per minute for the grade level your ds is in, which can provide you with another set of info showing the impact of dysgraphia when you are advocating at school (if you need it). The other thing you'll see from this is whether or not he's forming all of the letters correctly.

Next recommendation: start him typing right away at home so that by the time he can use typing as an accommodation at school he'll be used to it. Don't worry about having him learn touch-typing, let him come up with his own system. We've been told lots of young students like to type with just thumb and first finger and that works a-ok (just like it works fine for us older folks when we text :D). Also don't worry if his typing seems really slow - my ds has slow typing and will never develop faster typing due also to his fine motor issues... but his typing is still significantly faster than his handwriting.

Other recommendations - advocate for accommodations at school starting now, and most importantly - be sure you continue to advocate for him to have challenges in school in the areas he's strong in, and make sure that life outside of school doesn't become all about remediating dysgraphia

I'm sure I could list 1800 other recommendations if I thought long enough - feel free to ask more questions if you have them!

Best wishes,

polarbear

ps - one other thing I'll add - early elementary school was really rough because there was so much emphasis on advocating for accommodations and trying to remediate what we could etc. You'll find that as time moves on and your ds moves through to upper elementary and middle school things will most likely get better overall - the dysgraphia won't go away (and in our ds' case, he actually forgot some of the things he worked hard at learning due to dysgraphia... such as cursive!)... but overall, academics and life are *so* much better! It's been easier to get him appropriate academic challenge as he moved into middle school, he's happier because life is no longer all about learning how to cope with dysgraphia, and he really is now doing very well on standardized tests and doing very well in the classroom.

polarbear

Thanks for all the replies (and hope).

Our son didn't qualify for an IEP because his achievement is too high (even in timed writing, he is above-average), but he does qualify for a 504. The district wants us to wait a year and do more testing before we finalize the diagnosis. His problems may be due to asynchronous development and avoidance due to perfectionism. He is too young to be sure.

It's more difficult for him having these problems because he is grade-skipped, and he struggles to keep up with the older kids in writing. It's always a balancing act.

All of your suggestions are great.
HWT is working for us so far. He gets frustrated and his perfectionism kicks in, but he is slowly making progress. Just this week, he drew his first picture with the objects colored in! At restaurants, he reads the coloring books, but he has never colored in them, so this was a milestone for us!

And don't let me get started on his ability to use utensils!
Or to button his own pants. Or to unzip his backpack.
He can add fractions, but putting on socks....no way!
~sigh~

Gymnastics has been really helpful for my dysgraphic-like DS 7. He does HWT and has an IEP for OT. But the gymnastics has been really helpful for the lack of core strength issues and improving his grip. He sits better and lasts longer writing. None of this helps with the automaticity but its amazing how much it factors in.

DeHe

I would also suggest swimming for coordination and strength work. My son is dyslexic and dysgraphic and swimming seems to help a lot. He is in DYS too so it is possible to get in with these issues. We had him tested with someone familiar with 2e stuff (we had no idea he was 2e before testing). I do suggest finding someone especially if you need a report for the school. The tester would likely have that info that would be useful.

My son is in both gymnastics and swimming, and we've noticed a definite improvement with both. We are working on doing planks at home with him to build up core strength. Keep the great suggestions coming.

It's amazing how many of us are in similar situations. I'm feeling more hopeful about the future with all your replies.

The doctor we have now is covered by insurance, so we will likely continue with him. There are excellent reasons for getting a second opinion (especially, if they use different tests and/or have a speciality in gifted children). Convincing my husband might be difficult though.

Is dysgraphia common with highly gifted children?

I think that's really what your ds needs metis; IEPs are meant for students who need individualized instructional support in addition to accommodations, and it sounds like your ds doesn't have any holes or weaknesses that require individualized instruction, so a 504 will be a-ok for him I did want to add, though, in case another 2e parent is reading this and wondering about their child who might need individualized instruction - it's not impossible to qualify for an IEP even when a student is achieving above grade level. BTDT, it took a ton of advocacy, but it is possible for students who need it.


It's been my experience that schools often look at 2nd/3rd grade (age 7/8) as some kind of magical ladder rung, which once a child is there, they feel confident enough to say he/she is either gifted or dyslexic, or ready to be tested for LD or whatever... and in the meantime, students who could really benefit from early help and accommodations are missing out on opportunities for learning not only in the areas of their challenge but in other areas too where the impact isn't so obvious. On top of all that there can be a very real hit on self-esteem when a child is struggling and not receiving help.

There is a chance your ds may be impacted by asynchronous development and perhaps you're seeing signs of perfectionism, but I'd be very careful to assume that's what you're seeing - but I'd be more inclined to think that's a possibility *if* you hadn't mentioned the other things you'd mentioned - difficulty with zippers, buttons etc. Those are the kinds of skills that perfectionists seldom worry about.. but they are skills impacted by fine motor coordination. Those were some of the early signs in our ds that he had developmental coordination disorder - I have no idea if that's an issue with your ds or not, if it's something else impacting fine motor, or if it's all not much of anything, but I think that since you are seeing difficulty with fine motor challenges in multiple areas, it's not too early to consider having him evaluated by a private neuropsychologist. You are getting some help through school now, and that's all good - but I think if you polled us 2e parents as a group, the majority of us would tell you that by far the best thing we ever did in terms of understanding what was impacting our children and how to really help them for the long term, you'd find many of us would tell you to make that neuropsych appointment now.


And that's one more reason I'd vote for a private eval now - because you've got him grade-skipped and he needs the skip to keep him intellectually challenged. The writing demands aren't going to get any easier, and he's going to be noticing the differences more and more as he sits in class working and sees what his classmates are able to do that he can't.

I would also suggest you get him typing at home asap - even if you find out ultimately that he's not dysgraphic and doesn't need it, it's a skill all of our kids will ultimately be using anyway. My nt kiddos were typing their essays and project reports for school (at school) by the time they were in second grade.



metis, this sounds SO much like my ds with DCD. Don't be too discouraged by it - if it is DCD, it will get better with lots of time and lots of repetition and gradual maturity. We coped a lot in the early years by doing things like having ds wear elastic waist pants with no zipper, velcro shoes, things like that. But oooooohhhh... it took so long getting ready for school because he was so slooooow getting dressed. Much better now - it does get better

Best wishes,

polarbear









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polarbear,

We did the neuropsych evaluation, that's how we have the IQ scores...just a part of that. He was formally diagnosed with DCD in fine motor (possibly dysgraphia, but it's too early to tell), but the district is still resistant. They are very comfortable telling me that he is highly gifted (he does stick out that way), but they are less willing to see his struggles. They call it a "relative weakness." (his academic scores jump from 99+, to 61 when writing is required!)

The neuropsychologist says that we will retest at 6yo and then will know for sure, but it's unlikely the diagnosis will change.

My son colored a restaurant menu for the first time yesterday! I almost cried. Part of me still hopes it's asynchronous development.

You've had some great advice, but I have the feeling that much of it is from people whose children have bigger challenges than yours. I want to ask: what's stopping you assuming it's just asynchronous development? You say at the start that his writing is ahead, although not as ahead as his other skills; so, while it's good to make sure he doesn't get held back unnecessarily, in what sense does he have a fine motor disability? I'm not understanding.

For context, my DS-now-9 started school at 4y10m writing no more than his name and that reluctantly (though reading chapter books etc.) He struggled through the first few years at school - I used to describe his writing as "age appropriate on a good day" - and he isn't grade skipped partly for this reason. But at the recent parents' evening teacher after teacher told me his writing was no longer a problem. (A couple did still say his writing is slow, and it's still a relative weakness, but it's no longer limiting what he can show he can do as it did.)

Is your DS interested in playing an instrument? If so I think I'd encourage that. I've heard that different kinds of hand strength don't always transfer, e.g. the strength you get from piano may not help with writing, but I'm not convinced, and in any case music has many other benefits, e.g. perseverance practice, social opportunities and a way to meet others of very different ages.

Cricket, metis mentioned other areas that were showing as fine motor delays (difficulty with buttons/zippers etc), and I think metis mentioned a low score on the Beery VMI - this is a visual motor integration test used by neuropsychologist that is impacted by fine motor challenges. It is possible to have DCD (fine motor disability) and still score ahead of average on the tests metis has mentioned and still be ahead of the game relateive to typically developing kids in academic areas that are impacted - but the challenge is in the discrepancy in skills - same challenge is their with asynchronicity, but with asynchronicity a child catches up over time, and with DCD a child needs a lot of extra help and repetition to develop the same sets of fine motor skills.

metis, I apologize - somehow in all the replies, I forgot that your ds is only 4 - I was thinking he was 6 already when I wrote my last reply. It sounds like really you are in a good place at school right now - it's great that they recognize his intellectual strengths! Typically it's the opposite (or recognizing *nothing at all*) that happens with 2e students and school staff.

Which grade is your ds in - K or 1st? Does he have a 504 or any accommodations for writing? Scribing is a very typical accommodation in early elementary.

Gotta run,

polarbear