Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments How to undo bad habits learned in school?

What I meant was, she doesn't get "counting on" even from the first number. So if I give her 9+2, she can count all the way up to 9 verbally without losing track of the 2 (which would tax most adults' verbal working memory, if we didn't have our addition facts memorized), but if I suggest that she just start by saying "nine," since she already knows that there are nine, it just doesn't make any sense to her.

I'm definitely not pushing it, I just make suggestions now and then to see if the penny will drop. I'm mostly just amazed that this kind of mis-match is possible. And a little worried that being so extremely good at a bad strategy will end up hindering her.

A numberline might be a helpful way for her to "see" this relationship, MegMeg.


I recall a lot of mystifying (well, to me, anyway) little things like this when DD was 3~7 yo. Some of it was unexpectedly more age-appropriate development overlaid with NON-age-appropriate cognitive development. It sounds like the same basic phenomenon. Predicting series was another thing that DD had a horrible time with, as I recall. It was a very peculiar-seeming "blind" spot, because she could do things all AROUND that one particular skill. KWIM?

Heh. See, that's the part about not so good with visuo-spatial stuff.

Absolutely!

Maybe this is just my fault as a visual thinker, but these two statements seem contradictory to me. How would she have counted in her head without mentally visualizing the cars?

IOW, she hasn't yet made the transition from "counting all" to "counting on". She doesn't "really" get that when you count, the ordinal number you used to label the last item is always the cardinal number of the set of items you've counted so far. Which is entirely developmentally normal, but I know how weird it can be to catch our children being developmentally normal from time to time :-)

I have a note of my astonishment at finding that the concept of "more" really did develop in stages in DS, then 3y0m. To casual observation he appeared to understand it, but on reading about how it developed and testing him I found that, indeed, although he could correctly answer "which is more?" questions if both numbers were 6 or less, *or* if they were separated by more than about 10, he couldn't answer "which is more, 6 or 7?". It still astonishes me now, actually - I had a real "how can he not understand that, given all the things he does understand?" feeling about it, but I also had it written down that being able to do this but not that was normal...

We used sidewalk chalk to construct a numberline, and then had DD step/count problems (both addition and subtraction) as a way of understanding this process when she was around 4, I think.

So it wasn't necessarily something that only works with visual-spatial learners. It can work on a kinesthetic front, as well.

Bottom line, though, is that she really only "got" this when she was developmentally ready. Until then, one has to just figure out a work-around strategy for the developmentally inappropiate/underdeveloped skill.

Been there, tried that! The chalk number-line is still out there on our sidewalk! She had great fun jumping around on it and counting her way up, but absolutely refused to focus on addition games. (This is the kid who pesters me for addition problems on paper.)

It may just be a developmental readiness thing.

My son unlearned all sorts of things in pre school that he knew concretely and abstractly before then. Including: whole word reading (went for a ball of whatever when they started insisting he do it phonetically), mental maths (slowed right down due to counting to 20 every single day when he could already do double digit addition and subtraction in his head), writing (they insisted on daily colouring to strengthen writing muscles), telling the time -they only did this in Gr00 (age 4 - 5) and only to half hour. so he forgot that he already knew how to tell the time. He forgot his left from right which he had instinctively known since before age 2. It was even on his silly report card! So I am fully of the opinion that if they need to count let them with whatever method they enjoy (numberline, manipulatives, fingers toes whatever) but if they don't need to then don't make them!

I sent my 5 year old to school being able to count on and back about 80% of the time. A month later he couldn't add 3+2 without using both hands and counting from one. It took him the whole year to get back to where he started. And he still makes the same mistake when counting back and gets an answer one high.

Luckily he has been able to learn to read at his own speed.

My kid basically "thought" a lot about math, played with the calculator and can do addition (even 2 digit with carry-over), subtraction, multiplication (he does something with his head and so I know he is not memorizing the facts but actually computing), basic questions like "109 + y = 120. What is y ?" type of questions verbally. He can count to a number/backward from any given number. He is very unchallenged at school with respect to math (and other things). We plan to again ask his teacher, but I see K as a lost year.

I am also not sure what value worksheets such as "put the ending consonant/ending letters and color all objects that end with the letter "t" in one color" have for a person who has been reading for a while now. Is this kind of worksheet supposed to enhance their spelling abilities ? He does those types of worksheets, though he is occasionally baffled by the tiny pictures they have on there (he used to openly protest before, but I told him it is disrespectful not to do worksheets or show the work). However, that said, is there a "better" way to show the work ?