Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Letter to school re DS and math - response!

Thanks again everyone!

Sweetie - I will look into the ALEKS assessment tool.

Polarbear - What a nice compliment. I find writing these things so stressful! I'm working so hard to develop and maintain a good relationship with the school.

I haven't heard back from the school yet. In fact the principal hadn't read it yet this AM. It's amazing how nervous I am feeling about this. I'll let you guys know what happens.

Alright, I am now going crazy. After all the thought and worry I had about the letter referenced above I have had absolutely no reply from the school yet.

Initially I gave them the benefit of the doubt. They were figuring out how to address this issue before responding. Then it had been almost a week and I thought, well they have a teacher work day Tuesday so I should give them until then. Yesterday I finally sent a very short follow-up saying it had been a little bit so i was just checking to make sure the email had been received. Now today we had a late start due to snow and it looks like there is a possibility that school might be effected by snow tomorrow. Ugh! I'm thinking it might be next week now before they will respond.

I get anxious when checking email because I'm a little afraid to read their response. I so don't want this to turn into a battle or me giving up. At this point though any response might be better than none for my nerves. Actually I don't think I mean that. If waiting gets the best for DS I will wait.

Sorry, I just needed to vent!

"
That is exactly what I need to do and I know it. Confrontation just isn't really in my personality and I'm really not so good at being politely confrontational. I'm working on it and it seems like I am going to get lots of practice!

The original letter and follow-up was sent to DS5's teacher, the GT teacher, the math coordinator, and the principal.

DS5 is a very young 5 so I'm really hesitant to do a grade skip. However the mention of a grade skip at the last PT conference was what got the GT teacher involved. It's sad if it has to come down to that.

Haven't you heard back yet? The principal I work for has a 24-hour turnaround rule, and I usually can expect an answer within 2 days with my daughter's principal. If you're not hearing back and it's been over a week, that's a HUGE problem! Get aggressive (hard, I know... I'm as non-confrontational as they get). You pay for this education with your taxes. Your school board and the principal work for you.

Nope, nothing yet. I believe that our principal also has a 24hr response policy which I've seen some of the staff not following in the past but now he isn't following it. It's been about 2 1/2 weeks.

I honestly don't know what my next step will be. I've been thinking about it all weekend and haven't figured it out. I am so hesitant to be pushy. If we stay in this school I'll be dealing with them for the next 7yrs. That's an awfully long time for a bad relationship. I know that the real focus should be on DS and not my level of comfort but I worry about the relationship changing the way DS is treated for the worse. The sad thing is that I had been telling people how happy I was with the principal, how he really seems to want the best for DS and now this.

Any suggestions are always welcome.

So over 21/2 weeks later, and quickly approaching him in person on Weds., I got a response late last night. Here it is:


Ms. Eibbed,

I was able to meet with Ms. E our Math Support Teacher today to discuss DS5. We have agreed to do some additional assessment next week to focus on some big picture math concept areas. We will not be giving him the full first or even second grade assessment. In addition, we are fortunate to have Ms. W and Ms. C co-teaching his math class. Ms. C is a member of our math team and will provide additional information about him as a math student.

In talking with Ms. W, she continues to encourage DS5 to explain his thinking, to think in multiple ways, and to think beyond just the surface level. Our goal is to push the class to go deeper with the concepts to truly understand the foundations while being able to truly explain their thinking.

We would like to meet to review the information we collect as well as to review what we see within the first month of being in Ms. W's math class during conferences. Ms. E, math support teacher, is available on Wednesday or Thursday evening of conferences, so hopefully we can schedule a conference on either Wednesday 13th, or Thursday, Feb. 14th.

Ms. ____ our front office secretary can assist in scheduling this conference.

Thank you!

Principal



So what do you think?

I find this response very disappointing.

1. They will not test him to the level that I requested and do not sound like they have any intention of trying something new or different with him. I should feel lucky that a math team teacher comes in sometimes,I know it's not every day because I have been in the classroom, to co-teach.

2. They do plan on really discussing this with me because the meeting is to be scheduled during P/T conferences and those are just 15 min. long. It does not sound like this will be a team meeting but just the math support teacher telling me how he is fine where he is.

I just don't understand what they have against true, thorough, assessment. Why don't they want to know where DS is? This class that I'm suppose to be so thankful for is where a teacher almost fell over in shock when one of the students knew what an odd number was. How could these kids know that? It hadn't been taught yet! DS has understood odd and even for a couple of years now.

I fear that this is going to leave us in the exact same position we are in now and without any additional information to make further decisions. I wanted this assessment not only so that they would really see DS5 but so that we would have acceptable and credible, in their eyes, data to discuss what options there may be? If he were to test at a 2nd grade level and there was no way to just subject accelerate him do to schedules I would like to know that. We could then have an informed discussion about in-class differentiation or maybe even talk about what other options may be out there. If we never get appropriate assessment it will always be a parent said/school said type of situation. I want to make an informed decision about subject acceleration, grade level acceleration, school change, homeschooling, or the status-quot.

I know I am rambling now but I'm at a loss. I want DS to have an answer besides "it's too easy, I know it already" when I ask him how math class was and what he learned today!

Eibbed, I think part of what you're possibly caught up in here is that the school might not have a true end-of-1st or 2nd grade assessment that ties to their curriculum set up - our elementary tended to do assessments by units rather than have a full-on first grade/2nd grade etc assessment... and the other gotcha was that state testing (where we are) doesn't start until 3rd grade, and doesn't cover all the concepts that are actually taught. In our case there is a lot of early elementary spiraling of "thinking" and "explaining" type work in math vs more traditional easily quantifiable stuff. How's that for a confusing thought to follow lol? Sorry I'm not explaining that well.. BUT.. fwiw, I'd take Sweetie's advice - sign up for the free 2-week trial verson of Aleks and have your ds take the assessments for as many grade levels as you can. The VERY USEFUL thing about the Aleks assessments is they will give you a detailed report that ties your child's knowledge to YOUR specific state curriculum standards (for all 50 states). It's also very easy to reset a grade level so that if your ds for instance, aces the grade level X assessment, you can switch him up to grade level X+1 and have him take that assessment (just be sure to save all the reports from the grade level X before making the switch).

The one gotcha with Aleks might be starting grade level - we used Aleks for after-schooling but it was several years ago, and at the time we used it, I think it started at grade 3.... but I also think they were adding in lower grade levels, or at least that was in their plan.

If there isn't a grade level below 3 and you need that for your ds, check out IXL. At the time we were using IXL (also several years back), it didn't have the same type of reporting against state standards but they might have added that since then.

THEN - if you find an online source to provide you with the assessment against state standards, also google around on your school district's website to see if they've done any type of research/eval/etc of that same company. The reason to do this - if they've done an eval and found a company's program to be credible, you can use this as backup when you go to your meeting, take the evals you've done online at home, and fire that back at your school staff if they cast doubt on the assessments.

Last thing - our ds was denied math acceleration in early elementary (in his case due to a disability that impacts his ability to write down math facts quickly). He literally had no acceleration at school all the way through 5th grade. For him, the downside was he was extremely bored and he eventually became extremely frustrated when he saw other kids get acceleration (and rather than just become frustrated he advocated for himself and was still denied). However, we let him afterschool in Aleks, we kept the reports of what he'd learned vs state standards, and when he had an opportunity to ask for acceleration at school in 6th, those reports got it for him. He's now in 7th grade, appropriately accelerated in math and science and he's doing VERY well. I realize that's not the optimal outcome - the acceleration should have happened way back in K... but... just wanted to put that out there to let you know that for those of us who advocate like crazy in early elementary and aren't successful... it's not the end of the world. It's frustrating and beyond annoying for sure, but it's also only one step in the journey.

Best wishes,

polarbear

ps - one other thought that comes to mind - our school was so very into "explain your work" and "show your work" all through elementary - and that was extremely challenging for our ds... for those very simple concept problems. If you think that might be potentially happening for your ds - work is so very simple, there's essentially nothing to explain (from his point of view) you might take a few of his example worksheets and talk him through it and write down what he tells you - ie, you scribe his thought process, so you can show that as extra proof he's got the concepts down.

"In talking with Ms. W, she continues to encourage DS5 to explain his thinking, to think in multiple ways, and to think beyond just the surface level. Our goal is to push the class to go deeper with the concepts to truly understand the foundations while being able to truly explain their thinking. "

How much deeper do they expect your son to understand 2 + 2, or to explain his thinking? What are the multiple ways of understanding this? Apples and apples vs. oranges and oranges?

I would take the advice above, and after school him, since they apparently aren't too concerned about his growth. But I would also continue to push them to get data about your son's current abilities. Ask them how they can effectively teach him if they don't know his level. Also, if they don't know where he starts, how can they be assured he is making a year's growth in a year's time?

Well... I had to giggle at this (painfully!) lol... because this was such a frustration for us in early elementary with the curriculum that was in vogue in our school at the time. DS had soooo so many worksheets that asked him to show understanding - not just in one way but usually in THREE different ways... for very very very VERY simple concepts. It was enough to make me want to throw a brick through a classroom window in frustration!

The reason I came back and commented was, it reminded me of something else that might be useful to consider going into this meeting. Our school had a number of parents who weren't too pleased with the curriculum, as well as, um, plummeting state test scores.... so there were quite a few meetings at school where the school staff tried to explain to the parents why this was such a great teaching method and curriculum etc. The emphasis was always on teaching math in a way that kids who aren't naturally "mathy" could get it and apply it to the real world so it would sink in. I finally realized that what was happening was the *ADULTS* who had chosen the curriculum weren't at all "mathy" and they'd never really understood math in early elementary. SO... not that that will change how you need to approach your meeting but it might be helpful just to keep it in mind - you might know more and be more naturally adept at understanding math than the teachers at the meeting.

polarbear

I can't tell if this is public school or what but it seems to me you didn't go high enough on the totem pole. I would have sent an email with a cc to his/her superior.