Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment To test or not to test...

Re: dd5. Adopted at 10 months, started walking the day after she left the orphanage, doing somersaults at 12 months, amazing fine motor skills even as a baby, has always learned new things with ease despite being 3rd child and not a lot of 1:1 attention. She was not an early reader or math whiz (that I have seen) but she just gets things very quickly. I had her tested as a young 4 yr old to try to rule out ADHD and determine LOG, FSIQ was 124 but psych (who did NOT specialize in gifted) said she suspected would be higher when dd was older and more cooperative. I just feel like this kid is >MG.

Now dd is in kindy at public elementary with a very large percentage of gifted identified kids. They screen next year in first grade and there is a once/week pull-out after that. She is cooperative in school and behaves well and is a teacher pleaser. I don't think the teacher really has a clue how bright she is.

So. I contacted a pscyh from the Hoagies list who is well respected and who I have heard good things about. She wants to do a full eval. and not just a WISC, which I get, but of course that is a lot of $--$2550 including initial consult with parents and child, 5 hrs of testing (will prob. take less than 5 hrs though so less $), comprehensive report, and feedback session.

It is a huge amt. of money for us. My kid seems happy now. So I just don't know what to do. Bite the bullet and get a full eval. from someone whose opinion I trust, and who will be an ally at the school if it turns out dd needs acceleration? Wait and see what happens in the fall when they screen all of the kids? Have her tested with just the WISC with tester who tested older dd--doesn't specialize in gifted but might still be useful--and I think it was around $500.

Argh. I hate to assume that dd is fine because she seems happy, I'm sure my parents thought I was perfectly happy in elementary school. I never would have thought of having older dd12 skip 6th grade without testing though, and it was clearly the right choice.

But what if I spend all of that $ to find out she is MG and the school won't do anything different anyway?

Any advice or BTDT? My dh will have a heart attack when I tell him the cost of the full eval.

She sounds like a fun kid!

I would probably wait until there is something obvious to be gained from having the scores. That is, do it when you start to think she needs acceleration or a grade skip in a form that will be available in this school. She's going to show you a lot in the next year or two; given the expense, I'd want to make sure the scores were fairly current when needed.

DeeDee

OK, so this is what I am afraid of (stealing from another thread...I think these were MON's words):
"Especially if they went into school with high expectations. Lots of our high ability kids go in eager to be finally going to that place where everyone learns. But it's not what they envision and by about November, it can become unbearable for them. While most kids are adjusting to following rules, learning to color in letters and match sounds, sight words and number sense, our kids are learning to adjust to day after day of pretending to find kindergarten stimulating."

DeeDee, that is a good point about making sure the scores are current when we need them. But I guess I just feel like if she did need greater differentiation or a skip, but doesn't get it in the next few years, it could be damaging. She also seems like a child who might bomb the gifted screener because she won't understand why she is being asked such easy questions. I don't want to project my own experience, but I know I could have used acceleration or a skip but I didn't show that in any way to my parents or teachers. But on the other hand...maybe it wouldn't hurt to just wait another year and re-evaluate.

Re: the $--does that seem like a reasonable cost?

I'm not sure there's much value to having a specific number. As the borrowed quote said, "Lots of our high ability kids go in eager to be finally going to that place where everyone learns." That's a personality trait that can't be measured on an IQ test.

Really, the questions are:
1) Is my child learning anything valuable in school?
2) If not, how is she responding to that?

Because sometimes they are learning something valuable, even if it's not necessarily reading and math.

My DD, who is MG, went to pre-K, where her teacher told my wife flat-out that she had nothing to teach our DD. That wasn't precisely true, but it is illustrative. Anyway, this teacher was very fond of DD, embraced her abilities, and gave her the chance to shine by letting her do things like taking over story time, reading aloud to the class. This was a very positive experience for DD. She was well-liked in class, emerging as a leader, and generally building a wonderful self-concept. So the answer to question one was an emphatic "YES," even though the teacher said otherwise.

Then came K, in a different school district, and the answers were "no" and "badly." We didn't need a higher number to tell us that something had to change.

We use a few questions and such to stay "tuned in" to our DS.

A few times a week, we ask:
"Did you learn anything new today?"
or
"What's the coolest thing you did in class?"

And comparing what books he wants on his own vs. what books they are doing in school. During story time, questions about the characters and such show whether he is engaged and understanding the material.

Probative stuff like that.

The $$$ sound far out there to me for the basic question you want answered; it doesn't seem like you need a full consult and profile. We were happy to have the school screening, but we also have full time gifted and highly gifted opportunities and it is all well supported. Is there a middle ground where the tester could do an initial screening like CogAT?

Deacongirl, I am wondering where you located. That sounds like the gifted center near me. I am sure it is a very thorough evaluation, but it was more than I needed -- or can afford. I found a private tester who really got gifted and charged me much less. My daughter wound up having a very pleasant testing experience and probably scored as high as she possibly could. Are you near Philly? I can share my tester's name if so.

Do you have options for a full-day gifted program or HG program in 1st grade (or earlier) where you're at? If not, I don't know that I'd bother testing quite yet - particularly since your dd seems to be happy. Part of the reason I wouldn't test quite yet is simply her age - I think if you can wait 1-2 years for a full IQ test (that you're paying for) you'll have less likelihood of dd possibly testing not quite as highly as she might due to simply maturity issues (paying attention, understanding it's important to answer the questions etc). You'll also have less likelihood of someone other than yourself questioning the results due to age at the time she was tested.

I also wouldn't pay for a full eval - I would only do that if my child was having challenges with school (which, oddly enough I've had with all three kids... so while I'm saying I wouldn't pay for an eval, that's coming from a parent who's kids have had full evals...)...

I also wouldn't worry too much about finding a gifted specialist, especially since you know and (I think) trust the previous tester. In an ideal world, of course I would want to have the evaluator be a person who specializes in gifted kids, but in my area, there are no such people, and it's worked out ok for us.

OTOH - I have to add that I've found that for my EG ds, having that # has been helpful. In his case, we tested early because there was a program that we were considering putting him in. Having the actual IQ # didn't really change anything about how we approached his education (other than issues relating to his 2e challenge)... but having the # *did* help us advocate for him at school, even when there wasn't a specific program etc that we were looking at that required a #. It was like having a little ace-in-our-pockets when we requested differentiation or more challenging work at school and our a teacher or school psych etc would try to pat us on the back and send us on our way thinking we were just another set of the "Every Parent Thinks Their Child is Gifted Gang" (apparently there is a large gang of these parents at our previous elementary school :D)... when we got remark (and we did, more than once in early elementary) it was just a bit fun to be able to show them that yes, indeed, we had #s to prove it

Best wishes,

polarbear

ps - fwiw, and totally OT, your description of your dd sounds *so* much like my dd who is now 8!

Thanks for the replies! I think it makes sense to wait. If we had a self-contained gifted option it would be a different story. I do think maturity might be an issue, and I would hate to spend all of that $ and not a reliable result due to that. She seems to enjoy school and I really don't believe she is any type of 2e so there is no need at this point for full evaluation. I guess we will see what happens in the fall! She may even mature enough that I will comfortable going with the cheaper, good, but not expert-in-giftedness tester that we used for dd12.

I am sure there is a huge gang of parents who think their child is gifted here, so if the screener doesn't pick her up next year, I will be put into that gang. I think 40% of dd12's 5th grade class here was in pull-out. Oh well!

Zenscanner--I like your questions. Dd doesn't share a ton of what goes on at school. She brings tons of worksheets home.
She has to be in the right mood to tell us any details though...

Polar, BTW, I PMed you a question-- don't know whether the little envelope is doing its job these days. :-)

DeeDee

We've never tested.

We are undoubtedly in the minority, but our DD13 is clearly EG, probably PG (she's acing AP Lit and admitted that this is one of her "fun" classes that "isn't that hard"), and we've been able to let her ability speak for itself rather than focusing on a number derived from independent testing.

Our reasons may sound odd, but we felt that testing was focusing on WHAT our child is instead of WHO she is, and we definitely didn't want the school doing that if it wasn't needed.

No good could come of it in our opinion and individual circumstances; either she tests LOWER than her function would indicate, in which case, lots of "WTH??" kinds of questions and a microscope to figure out why she isn't "testing" better... is it a disability? What kind?? (well, in one respect, she seems to be awfully functional in spite of that, so again, what's to be gained if she's using compensatory strategies so effectively that she's for all intents and purposes "unimpaired?")

Or-- the number is HIGHER than we think. (Possible.) Still, if it's THAT high, then we risk anyone who sees it turning her into a caricature/circus side show rather than treating her as an individual that they know. I experienced some of this, and it can be very damaging with adults who don't understand that you aren't just a guinea pig or specimen. Scores over 165 are REALLY out there for most educators, and she already knows (from daily experience) that her experiences of the world differ qualitatively from many peers, even gifted peers. She's only met a couple of peers who were at similar LOG.

So we're comfortable with "probably mid 150's to mid 160's, maybe higher."

If there were particular nagging problems, we'd definitely seek out formal evaluation. There are some times when we've wished fleetingly that we HAD the numbers. It just hasn't been necessary. We've had a school system that has listened well to me as an advocate, has proven to be reasonably flexible about placement options, and we've been willing to do some pretty radical things ourselves in terms of educational accommodation.

Partly, we've learned to be wary of testing for its own sake-- we've been down that rabbit hole a time or two with medical stuff, and there does come a point where the numbers don't TELL you anything of functional significance, and you wind up with MORE questions instead of answers.


Bottom line? What information do you think that you would get that you don't already have? What would you DO with the information?