Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy How do you know?

I realize that this is likely the "million dollar question" . . . but I'm asking it anyway, because I have been trying to formulate my thoughts and they keep coming back to this.

How do you know? How do you know how hard or far to "push" . . . how do you know how to maximize opportunity, while protecting childhood and age-mate friendships?

Our 2nd grade son will be accelerating into 3rd grade reading and math classes after winter break. It was suggested that the potential for him to go into 4th grade next fall, potentially doing 5th grade reading and math after THAT winter break, is a very real option. He'd then go into 6th grade in what would normally be his 4th grade year, however that would put him into our local middle school project which allows for easier acceleration and isn't as tied to "grades / age-level" like our elementary schools are.

So . . . with this comes all of the feelings of uncertainty, excitement, hope, you know the drill. Transitions and change have long been difficult for him, however he is excited about going into 3rd grade classes for the challenge . . . even though we know it won't be a challenge since he actually performs at a much higher level, like most of the kiddos here I'm guessing.

My other challenge is other adults. I realize this is MY challenge, or OUR challenge (but the hubs doesn't let things like this really register on his radar, and I am a teacher, so I hear it / feel it more). I hate feeling like I'm "bragging" whenever I ask for the thoughts of others on his progress and the decisions that we're facing. I hate the "don't you worry about him not being with his same-age peers" comments when we talk about acceleration.

I mean . . . yes, we do think about those things, but I've also read enough research and done enough thinking to realize that keeping with him kids his age purely for being with kids his age is the most ridiculous thing we can do. How

I guess I'm just new to this and looking for thoughts / support / advice . . .

I don't need to please other people or have them agree with me . . . but it is just another element in all of this. We do have wonderful support in our school, and I've been put in touch with a couple of local parents who will no doubt be great resources for us . . . but but but!

So much to think about. In short . . . how do you help your kiddos adjust to acceleration changes? How do you politely tell adults who think they know what is best for them to buzz off unless they put the time into knowing your child and the research? How do you know how far to push / encourage your child while keeping the love of learning? Are baby steps a valid option even though it doesn't necessarily reach him at his level?

To cut off unwanted conversations, "We have carefully considered his educational and social needs, and we put together a program designed to meet those needs."

You would think that would cover it, but...no guarantee.

Just follow your basic problem solving model: gather information, define needs, develop a plan, implement the plan, wait to see how it works, evaluate the plan, define any new needs, wash, rinse, repeat. You're a teacher, you know how to roll with the punches!

I used to live in Taiwan, and I wonder sometimes if American moms wouldn't do better to err on the side of the Tiger Mom. It's definitely a balancing act, but you'll figure it out.

If by "push" you mean pushing obstacles out of the way so that your son can operate at his optimal level of challenge/learning, then I'd say as much as possible without making yourself an obstacle.

If other parents question the decision, then I'd pose the opposite question: "Why don't you hold back your little Billy? Or ask that he go back to K?"

For general adults who question the social compatibility... then: "Have a conversation with my son about anything and then come ask me again."

That's why this forum is such a great place

I avoid conversations about this kind of with moms that I meet from other schools. Ours is a small language immersion / montessori dual track school, so many of the kids are clever, and some gifted. If your child is accelerated or in a gifted program, no one bats an eye. IT'S A.W.E.S.O.M.E.

How many friends does your son have? Is he happy? This matters more than what the other parents think. I know it's hard... but we need to listen to our kids first and the naysayers second never.

The age-mate thing is tricky though. While I agree that grouping kids solely based on age is not a good idea, it's also true that cognition and emotional development are not always in sync, and both have a huge impact on the child's experience.

Does your son have any extracurricular activities (i.e. sports, arts, chess club, etc) that he is in where he is with kids his age?

One thing is for sure: you don't want your DS getting bitter about school because he's bored. I personally know two moms with sons (aged 9 and 10) who are getting themselves into some real trouble because of this (one is currently in counseling). In both cases the boys are in regular classes with age mates and their schools are refusing to accelerate them. With this in mind, I'd say don't let anyone talk you out of acceleration for your DS just because he'll be with older kids.

As for how far to push him... he'll let you know when he's bored Vs in over his head... just keep the lines of communication open

How do you know?

Well, you don't. Actually, of course no parent ever really knows... but it's worse when your child is not normative, because while everyone (it seems) is willing to tell you in great detail how what you're doing is "damaging" your child...

the conventional advice and lovely parenting books/recommendations just... don't... fit. To the point that some of it just leaves you perplexed/bewildered/exasperated. It's just OBVIOUSLY incorrect, but you don't necessarily have any basis for determining which alternatives are the right ones and which ones are also wrong.

Well, that leaves floundering in the dark and following your heart as the best paths forward. Which is cold comfort, actually, but at least you should be aware that you're not alone there.

{{hugs}}

My DD is 13 and is thriving in her (relatively high-pressure) junior year of high school. She should graduate in the top 0.5% of her high school class, and she has friends and is happily involved in healthy extracurricular activities. She's pretty comfortable in her own skin relative to a lot of her peers and her agemates, though she is sometimes sad that she doesn't fit completely with either group. It can work. We've ignored a lot of judgmental snide asides from pretty much everyone we know over the past seven years, though. The only thing we've had is the knowledge that the general parenting rules related to developmental timelines... do not apply.

Thank you, thank you for your thoughts!

Master of None . . . that is our struggle. He wants to be challenged (and even one grade level above isn't going to be it for him, but it will be NEW for a while and he'll no doubt gain something and likely be ready for more . . . we'll keep building bridges where we need them, I guess), but he also fears change a little. He's improved on this a lot. It's the perfectionist in him, I think. Since we was tiny, he wants routine because it feels comfortable . . . yet he wants the challenge. He has his mind wrapped around moving to third grade and is excited, but next year the potential plan, assuming all goes well and it is a good fit, is that he'd go into fourth grade. When I casually mentioned investigating that as an option, he simply said, "No." Obviously I don't want to force him into anything . . . but as was said, it isn't the content as much as the pace. If his history is any indicator, he'll be ready for more . . . and I just hope that he can find calm in himself and confidence in his transition to be ready for whatever is out there without holding himself back out of fear.

I agree that it is a struggle "accepting my kid is never going to be normal," and it is one that I had no idea existed until I climbed into these shoes myself. It is "easy" to at least make sense of the fears and struggles of those who watch their children struggle academically . . . we can understand how heartbreaking it could be, and I think our society is geared toward understanding that a little more. I truly never expected the inner-struggles that I'm facing now, though had I listened to my nervous twinges when he first entered school and blew his standardized testing and academics out of the water, I would have had a clue.

Baby steps are the answer, I guess . . . one thing at a time using whatever data and "readiness" was can gather. The world is wide open and I trust that he'll make the most of it, but the daunting task of helping him begin to take those steps outside of a "normal system" that the rest of our society depends on completely to guide them feels huge right now.

BINGO. Thank you for that thought. We've long felt like all the usual rules don't apply to this little guy . . . from the word GO he was an utter puzzle. It's a beautiful thing . . . but you're right, it gets confusing when everyone - including several staff members who share a school building with me - pretends to know the risks, realities, and dangers, when truly this is such an unfamiliar territory for most, myself included.

With these kids, there's another, tougher question that precedes this one: "What is their age?" Because the number of revolutions around the sun just doesn't explain them the same way it does for most people.

And the answer to that question is another question: "What do you mean? Chronologically? Physically? Cognitively? Socially? Psychologically?"

This is my DD10... she's always been really hard to place. Add to the mix is the fact that she has a late November birth date, so she's socially a little immature compared to her "age-class-mates." She's... immature and under-challenged.

Yes!!! Exactly.

And, what age at what time? And, is there a way to predict the age you are going to get at any given time???

Back to the original thread.....

And herein lies the question(s) . . . right?!

Good thoughts.

I've often been most flummoxed by people who come to the conclusion that we "aren't letting {DD} have a childhood."

The reason that I'm never sure what to say to that one is that, well... in some ways she ISN'T her chronological age. Should we patronize her? Infantilize her? Clearly that carries its own price, most specifically in her self-esteem.

On the other hand, turn most people loose with my 13yo for a few afternoons and they forget completely that she IS only 13.

They start imposing 18-21yo expectations on her. WE are generally the ones who are putting the brakes on THAT kind of behavior and shielding her from it.

You know that you have one of those kids when you start hearing "Oh, you know... I just forget that she's not another adult when I get to talking with her" when your child is many years from even being an adolescent.

That's been one of our toughest and most relentless tasks in raising a PG child. WE aren't the ones trying to rob her of childhood-- the world at large seems to be dead set upon it, however.

I got flack from people when my two were younger for "over scheduling them."

The truth is, I couldn't handle them. I had to have them in multiple activities ongoing, or the inactivity would leave them restless, hyper and stressed out. Now it's a little easier because they can manage their own energy a bit better and they can self direct. When they were younger though... none of the other toddler moms understood and I was "critiqued" often.

Interesting point, Howlerkarma! I can tell when my kid's frontal lobes have short-circuited and she needs to be treated like an actual 4 year old, but most other people can't. They judge her by her usual behavior, and conclude that she is just suddenly being "bad." You're right, they're the ones not letting her be her age.

CCN, I sometimes feel like I'm overscheduling too, but I also just can't handle my kid's need for constant input! So I'm outsourcing it. Waiting for the day when she can self-direct for more than 20 minutes at a time!

As for the original post, strategies for deflecting are really useful, but there's also the underlying feeling of isolation when you have to do that. When I got this mid-year kindergarten admission for Hanni, I was really surprised at how my nearest and dearest, who KNOW what she'd like, said things like "She can always do kindergarten over again next year, right?" and "Don't let her get too far ahead." I quickly adopted the line that it's a really good thing that this school does mixed age groups, so that it won't be weird next year. That seems to calm people down. I let them assume that next year she'll be in the K-1 group again, when in fact it's more likely she'll be with the 1st-2nd group. It works, but meanwhile there's this wall between me and them.

I think whenever we as parents do something that is outside the norm, we question ourselves. And that is perfectly normal. I doubt there are easy answers to the question of whether we are doing too much or not enough, but the fact that you are asking the question is the most important, because that means you care t monitor the situation.

As for monitoring academic readiness, that is somewhat easier as you can see by ongoing test scores and the work coming home if the level is closer to appropriate. If the school does testing like NWEA MAP testing, which goes above level, you can see where your kiddo falls among kids in higher grades.

Social readiness is sometimes a leap of faith, because you don't know until you do it. but if the school has come up with this plan, it's a good sign that they think he's ready.

When our kiddo started skipping/changing schools, we made a point to make playdates with the friends from the earlier grades. DS8's best friends are agemates (one in a grade below and one who is also a grade skipper). I recommend keeping in touch with old friends, though he will make new ones too. With luck, your DS will get along with some of the kids in 3rd after the break, and going to 4th won't be an issue because he'll know the kids already.

As for what to tell other parents, we found that the ones who knew our kiddo were very supportive, and the ones who didn't really know him were satisfied with "The school decided it was best for him since he already completed the requirements in the lower grade." That stopped the questions, anyway. We also added that we felt lucky that our DS still got to see his other friends in afterschool activities like scouts, YMCA camp, etc.

Good luck!

We did a grade-skip with our daughter this past year -- skipping 3rd grade so she's in 4th grade now. I'm also a teacher, so I understand how you feel when it comes to being surrounded by other people all day long who "understand" education and honestly ARE "experts" in education and the unsolicited opinions you may get. Honestly, though, we have had to deal with those attitudes from other adults MUCH less than I'd thought we would. For one thing, I try very hard to not bring it up. I honestly think about half of my colleagues -- who have known me for a long time -- don't even realize that my DD9 skipped a grade! They just know that she's in 4th grade, and I think they assume that they're just confused and don't want to admit to me that they don't know what grade she's supposed to be in, so they play along and pretend like they've known all along that she's supposed to be in 4th grade this year. I have to fight the urge at times to "explain" our decision when no one has actually even questioned it, just because I feel defensive and assume that people are getting ready to ask about it. So, if people don't specifically ask about the grade skip, I don't say anything about it. The few times that people have asked something specific about it, I just usually say, "Well, it was just the best decision for all of us to make at the time and she's doing great!" and they very rarely ask any "follow-up" questions.

I sometimes have to "justify" it to myself in my own mind when I second-guess myself by remembering that we were not making the decision between having a "normal" 3rd grader this year and a "too-young" 4th grader this year. For our daughter -- just like for most of the kids we discuss on this forum -- "normal" hasn't been an option for a LONG time!!! We didn't push her to do something she wasn't ready for, we just refused to keep holding her back just because of her birthdate. It was a terrific decision and we have a happy 4th grader with plenty of friends who is still making straight As, but is learning something every day and having to put some effort into those grades.

If I were you, I would take everything one step at a time. Don't commit to 6th-grade-as-a-4th-grader for him now. Just take the next step...and let him "wear that" for a bit to see how it feels. I really believe that you'll know when you've reached the "sweet spot." For us, I think DD9 would be fine academically if we skipped her another grade, but that really isn't on my radar right now because I feel like she's doing great where she is. If things stop feeling so great in another year or two, we may re-evaluate and move another step. I think baby steps are absolutely fine unless you're confident that giant steps will be best. I think the thing to realize is that you're not going to find the "perfect" fit for him -- you're just trying to find the balance that best meets his academic, social, physical, and emotional needs. I feel like we'd tip the academic scales too much one way if we had kept our daughter with her same-age peers...but I currently feel like we'd tip the emotional and social skills too much the other way if we'd accelerate her by a second grade level even if that would be an even-better academic fit...so this is her best fit for now.

One thing we've done to help my daughter adjust is to let her keep some "power" in terms of making decisions about whether or not she wants to accelerate a grade level in sports teams (some are age-based, but some are grade-based)...in summer camp...in church...etc. Mom and Dad get to make the school decisions, but the others are up to her (and she's elected to stay with same-age peers so far, though I anticipate her to change in another couple of years). We've also talked a lot along the way about the purpose of school and that school needs to be a place where you learn new things. Without the grade skip, she wasn't learning new things and she knew that. This mindset has also helped her handle some frustration along the way -- I don't understand this certain concept right now, but it's okay because I'm supposed to be learning new things in school.

So, anyway, hope that helps some. I thing you just take it a step at a time if that's what you're comfortable with doing. You know your kid, and you know that you're doing all of this FOR him and not TO him. I think the other adults may be easier to handle than you assume. Best of luck with all of your decisions!