Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy This is not good for my rage

I would LOVE to see the kid who was able to memorize a book without having read it first. Why does this idea persist?

Oh dear! I can't help, but I can share my visceral reaction. I would have been fantasizing about handing the teacher a stack of education texts and parroting her comment.

(Note - my comment has nothing to do with the OP's issue with this teacher)... just fwiw, my HG+ dd memorized words and was able to look like she was reading when really she wasn't reading, she was parroting back words she had memorized and sometimes she would be using pictures that went with the words to key her memory. She's got a great memory, and she watched and listened while books were read to her. So yes, there are kids who can memorize books without technically having read them first.

For her, it really was (and is) an issue - she's 2e and still struggling to read. Our ds also had a friend in K/1 who learned to read by memorizing words, and the teachers back then were very concerned about it - they thought if she didn't learn how to decode using phonics she would struggle with higher level reading. I don't know if that happened or not.

polarbear

Good point, polarbear.

The really funny thing to me is, the "memorization" comments are what prompted me to write to the teacher and ask for DD to be excused from reading these phonics booklets... but in the teacher's response to me, she said these books are "very easy for her when it comes to decoding the words." And she made some comments about how DD can decode words above her grade level, but she needs the "higher level reading strategies" she's getting with these leveled readers.

So I'm not even sure what the teacher's position is here- does she think DD is whole-language learning and just memorizing it all, or does she think DD is just decoding everything but not understanding anything? :oP I think it's pretty clear from her test scores that neither of these things is the case. BUT, I do think DD could definitely benefit from some advanced phonics work. She has little patience for sounding out unfamilar words and doesn't have great strategies for breaking up multi-syllable words she's having trouble with. At conferences I did point out that she could use instruction in that, but looks like I'll have to do it myself.

MoN- the emotional appeal, the child losing love of learning etc, didn't work for my DS6.
they just didn't seem to really care.
or rather they tried to placate me, thinking i'd just hush up.
i didn't.
that's why i pulled him from kinder...
(that's a total of 8 yes EIGHT- kids who have left this teacher's class. actually, 6 of the kids left the school entirely!)

he's still on paper as kindergarten, but doing independent study thru the district,
and doing mid/end 1st grade work. and speeding thru this.

but back to the post creator- you sound very invested in this school, and i hope it does work out! have you requested a possible move to 1st grade?
thru the independent study, i have been given books which include the teachers edition for the treasures program CA uses, and it specifically explains day by day for teacher. breaking it down to minutes of the day to teach a specific item.
*and it also then breaks it further into special needs/approaching grade level/at grade level/ beyond. (it even has ESL!!) so i am wondering if you're childs teacher is following her teacher guide?
it specifically states what an accelerated student should be doing. the readers are higher level etc...the teacher really doesn't have to think too much outside the box LOL because it is all right there in b/w!! ((i assume that most academic programs would incl these different levels in their curriculum as well, treasures can't be only one to do so?))* even DS math teachers edition, has different levels for kids. both also break it down into large group, broken down into smaller group learning etc... it is VERY indepth.

sadly, i realize only after starting independent study, and getting my hands on these teacher editions? my DS teacher flat out refused to even attempt the "beyond" level readers etc etc instead, making him read the "decodable" bks. basic picture books really. he hated it.

just a note also,
DS was learning a new math concept last wk- he said "oh i just can't do this!"
me- why not? let's try again!
DS- "mom! i'm just too stupid now! my brain just can't learn! you know my mrs. chang thinks i'm stupid!" and then he started crying...

well. what do you say to that?
i was only then fully aware how much damage was done, i mean, how deep it went- affecting his self worth/esteem etc...

so i did what all good moms do!
i told him his teacher had simply given him "changitis" and we discussed some of the other kids who had left the class because the kids were bored and unhappy, and parents couldn't get help from the teacher... we discussed how for whatever reason this particular teacher had caused these kids to all develop changitis and they were all better now after having left her class (and yes they are all doing well/happy!)... and i explained how he was no longer there, that she was no longer going to make him feel like he couldn't do what he was very capable of doing ie read etc, also because i believed in him, and i knew what he could do and what he wanted to do, and i was going to support him however i could, and just that he needed to try. the only way to overcome changitis it to try. to continue to learn new things. to be happy learning new things.and i asked him-- you don't want to prove chang right do you? then i asked if he was happy? (i already knew answer to this was yes, because he tells me most days how happy he is that he is learning new things...) so he says yes, he is happy, and that i was right, he felt like his changitis was better. he then asked if he could try the new math concept again. he did and he understood it and was so thrilled. i told him how happy i was that he tried so hard and asked him how he felt when he tried to learn something new, that seemed hard, and he said it made him feel very happy.

point is, my DS6 is still recovering from the last 4mos spent in a classroom that stripped him of himself. what he knew, that he knew. without the support and encouragement of his teacher, someone incharge of my child for 34hrs/wk, she beat him down to a withdrawn child who hated school and didn't care about learning. *he is now back up and running, and would willingly sit and do school all day long! but that is because he is learning new things and even the review is at a more challenging level, and slowly this is empowering him, and his creative side is even finally peeking out again.

one last sidenote- DS is amazing @painting. wish i could share some. yet after i pulled him from class/school, on the last day of the semester, 1wk later i rec'd his "grades" in the mail, and his kinder teacher literally flunked him in art. oh and health. ummm i am in the healthfield. i believe both of those marks on his report card were a direct last ditch retaliation type effort on changs part. not even worth more from me than a laugh. (and i did laugh!) but also validates that she was not the right person to be entrusted to teach or even care for my son. emotional stability and wellbeing are just as important as the academic part of school in kindergarten especially.

long story short and didn't mean to hijack your original post, but
just don't wait too long to make a change in your dtr's schooling situation. damage (could be) is being done on a deeper level than just not having your dtr continue to learn new stuff etc.

take care

w-
just read last reply from you,
do not let teacher get away with throwing memorization at you! if you feel your DD is fully reading and comprehending (key) then you tell her to assess DD!

this was one thing DS teacher said re DS reading (and even math)
- that just because he could memorize a few words did not make him a reader! same with math facts.
he can do math story problems in his head! he does them for fun, answering and then thinking of problem to ask me - a simple ie
i am an even #, i am greater than 10, less than 18, #choices are 2, 5, 0, 1, what # am i? (answer is 12). that was simple.
but he just turned 6.

and yes he is reading with full comprehension and HAD she taken the time to assess him, she would know this. (our new support teacher assessed him- he read out of the 2nd gr book, and then was able to discuss and read/answer in detail questions at end of story)

i don't mean to be doom and gloom?! but i am newly passionate about all of this! fyi, my son is also 2E and sadly, i think his autism played into this in respect that teacher has no clue re high functioning autistic children who don't always present as what many assume autism to be....
but she knew his dx, and almost seemed to just write him off. (that may be my anger talking. she may just suck at teaching.)

W's mama- just wanted to add my ds experience with phonics and sounding out words. (He's 5.5 in kindergarten was reading 2nd grade in August). Yet, he did struggle with sounding, but was good at replacing the word with a synonym. Thus, if I wasn't right there, the sentence and story still flowed. I started sitting with him, stopping him, making him sound out the word &/ or showing him how to break apart the word. By November, he is definitely improved. He is more like a strong 3-4 grade level reader. (I am still trying to get his teacher to adminster another STAR test to bump up the AR level of books he can read at school- frustrating!)Also, he speed and endurance improved.
I'm sure your dd is close to figuring it all out with a little support. Good luck!
One other thought. At our school, sight words are sent home, that is memorization. One component of reading is memorization. If you had to sound out each and every word, it would take 15 mins for 1 sentence.

Ugh...my ds brings home those "Zac is a Rat" pamphlets...sadly, they go right in our trash. I used to have ds read them, but now it's just so - STUPID.

Luckily, ds is getting his own reading group with teacher but I think she is still giving him books that are too easy, which I told her recently (nicely). We talked about ds 'whole language' reading, and she admitted that he probably won't even benefit that much from the phonics approach since so many of the phonics rules are broken more than they are used.

Melessa...you can't just chose your own AR books for ds? We just use our local library and choose books there for ds to test with. DS can test at any level he pleases...but of course we try to keep them level-appropriate. They won't let you do that?

Evemomma- we are reading higher level at home. I just want his teacher to acknowledge it. The school rule is you can't check a book out that is above your level. So, the books ds is reading at school are way to easy.

I haven't, and probably wouldn't want a skip this year for the same reason we didn't pursue early entry. We like having her around and are not eager to send her off to a full day any earlier than we have to. (K is 3 hours a day.)



Ugh, seriously?? Because Treasures actually IS what they use. I had no idea the program had it all spelled out what to do with a kid who's beyond grade level. I doubt it would be enough, but at least it would show that the teacher has some idea that different kids might need different instruction. As far as I can tell, every student in the class is reading the exact same things. I went to the classroom again this week and didn't see any differentiation- all the kids rotate through the centers doing the same activities, working with the same booklets.

In other news, I've been chatting with a mom who wants to try to get the school to start a homeschool enrichment program. Homeschooling is looking better and better. I'll probably start a new thread to solicit some input on that.