Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Should I have my daughter tested for giftedness?

I am new to this forum, but I am hoping to find some advice that can ease my frustration with my child. My 5-year-old daughter goes out of her way to pretend she can't do things. This has become a reoccurring theme for several years. She has always been extremely bright, a leader among peers, has spoken beyond her years, has an amazing imagination, and a stubbornness that is very difficult to break through. I have been thinking more and more that some of her abilities and actions go beyond just being bright, but I have been reluctant to push the issue of testing. When she was 3 she went to preschool 9 hours per week. During a second semester teacher conference I was told that she had refused to identify the number 10 all year long whenever asked...she would insist that she didn't know what it was but that she thought it looked like a 19. Finally after prodding from the teacher she admitted that she knew some people liked to call it a 10, but she really preferred to call it 19. The teachers and I agreed that she was bored with the testing and went out of her way to make it more intersting. When she was 4 she attended preschool 5 days per week for 3 hours per day. She tested very poorly during the initial evaluation at the beginning of the year and I addressed the possibility of her pretending to not know the answers with the teacher. She was receptive to my suspicions and had thought that might be the case. By the second semester my daughter was still not always willing to demonstrate her knowledge during evaluations and would go out of her way to complicate her answers. For example she insisted that she could not identify the letter "q", but would instead say she couldn't be sure, but it looked like an upside down backwards b. (That takes some serious thought!) This teacher also recognized that she was bored and was just trying to make the testing more interesting. The teacher believed that my daughter saw other children getting more attention when they struggled with answers thus prompting her to pretend to also be struggling. Her behavior in class was always wonderful when they were learning something new, but would go astray whenever they were reviewing previous topics. Thankfully this teacher did not dismiss her as a misbehaving child but instead admitted that it was hard to teach my daughter only because she had 17 other kids in the class that were not at the same level. Towards the end of the year she started having my daughter help friends that were struggling in class by reviewing lessons with them. My daughter loved this and came home announcing that she got to be almost an assistant teacher and how good it felt to help her friends. After careful consideration we opted to send her to a highly rated private school for Kindergarten in the hopes that she will receive more individualized attention. She really seems to be enjoying the social aspect of school but she is already very bored with the work. Getting her to finish the nightly homework is a battle because it consists of mostly circling letters and coloring pictures. When we try to have her read to us she starts out well but as soon as we praise her, she will then repeatedly pretend to be struggling to sound out words with all kinds of dramatic confusion and frustration. She will do this whole act with words that she just read two pages prior. My husband and I have both tried to reason with her and/or threaten her with consequences regarding pretending to not know the answers, but it just seems to intensify the issue. I've tried the argument that she has to demonstrate her knowledge on the easy "stuff" to earn the right to do the more interesting "stuff" and she asked me "why?" and you know, I struggled to find an answer for her. Friends with children the same age look at me like I'm crazy if I mention that my daughter pretends to not know things and they probably think I'm just trying to brag about my smart kid. I don't want to be so frustrated with my daughter, I don't want her to be bored, I don't want her to feel like she has to hide her intelligence to fit in, I want to be sure that I'm nurturing her gifts and not pushing her too hard. Should I have her tested? Should I wait to see if the school recognizes it? Should I request a conference with her teacher? I don't want to come off as an overbearing mom who just expects too much of their child. I truly believe she is hiding her abilities and I just don't understand why she feels the need to do so. I don't think we would have similar issues over several years with multiple teachers if there wasn't a root reason for it.

I think testing is a great idea MJK. You sound really frustrated and it can help provide answers. Do you think your daughter would cooperate with the tester?

I am not an expert but several on this board know quite a lot about testing and child behavior. I wanted to give your situation a bump and see if you can get someone who knows more to ring in.

You also might want to post the same info again with a different title in "Parenting & Advocacy". Maybe something like "DD5 going underground already! Help!" "Going underground" is the term for girls hiding their intelligence to fit in but they usually wait until teens to do this. Your DD clearly has something else going on because she does it at home too.

I hope you get some replies.

I don't have any answers for you but just wanted to say that I am suspecting I have a similar situation brewing here.

DS 2.10 will look at the letter M, but instead of saying it is M, which he easily knows (he has known all his letters since well before 2) he will turn the book around and insist it is a W.
Seems he is always trying to make things more "creative". Like he gets bored with looking at something for what it is. He always jokes around saying the wrong thing and either laughs about it or puts on a straight face.

I hope he grows out of this because I can see it becoming an issue in school later...

I REALLY hope someone has some experience with this and will post suggestions. I DO think you should have her tested. We tested DS4.11 and it had made things so much more clear for us. It is like I know my child so much better and understand his behavior better.

Should you spend good money on testing your daughter who makes a game of avoiding giving the right answers on tests, blocking you from using that particular test again for at least a year? What makes you think that would go well, the way things stand? It would be far better to address the intentional non-performance issue first, starting with a series of heart-to-heart talks with her. She needs to fully understand that you can't get her more advanced work until she shows the school that she needs it, and that otherwise you won't be able to help her.

Also, paragraph breaks can make a long post a lot easier to read.

I wonder if you can set up a reward system for her? My dd6 reads at 4th grade level, but over the summer, would rather do other things than read. So I basically bribed her. I told her that as soon as she finished a certain chapter book, she could go to her favorite store for a small prize. Where my dd had claimed she was too tired to read more than a page or two before, after the reward, she breezed through the book (which I knew she could do) in just 2 days. I kept that up for 4 books and now she has to read several books before she gets a reward, but now we both know she can do it. I think the reward gave her a goal to work toward, and the reading gave her confidence and practice, so she could do more.

Maybe you could do something similar with difficult goals for your dd. Do you think the teacher would work with you to come up with something? For instance, after she writes 3 stories she gets a reward. Or for every time she surprises you with information or a skill you didn't know she knew, she gets a token toward a reward.

I do think you should get her tested. My son loved the challenge of testing.

I would try ignoring her fakery with a flat-lined "OK" when she is playing. Even if you're mad, channel your best 'disinterested teen' moment. If she keeps playing, stop the activity and move on to something non- academic. If she wonders why, calmly say you won't keep working with her when is not interested in learning.

I second this. My DD9 knew the alphabet cold at 16 months and was reading fairly fluently (gr 2 level?) at 3 yrs, but after her FIRST DAY at preschool she came home pretending that she no longer knew how. She wrote the book on going underground, LOL

Our pediatrician warned us against testing either child (I also have a son) until their behavioural issues are addressed, for fear that the scores would be suppressed. I regret not having DD tested BEFORE preschool, because it wasn't until she made contact with age peers in a class that she realized she was different and started playing chameleon.

She's 9 now, has been accepted into the gifted math program because of her achievement (we have no WISC-IV results to submit). She still has big perfectionism issues so I have no plans to have her tested any time soon. We'll see how it goes... she may be one who decides for herself to get tested as an adult (like me).

For a high achieving, non-chameleon child I think testing is terrific. I also think that testing can reveal valuable info about learning disabilities and can get a child help. For some anxious, "underground" kids, though... I don't know.

The ok thing about testing, though, is that scores can be falsely suppressed, so if you did proceed and the results are lower than you expected, you can consider them inaccurate and protect the child from being "limited" by them. But as Iucounu said, if you don't suspect any LD, why would you spend the money?

Instead you might want to consider compiling portfolio material for advocacy purposes.

Good luck

I wouldn't have her tested for giftedness at this point in time, simply because no matter what the scores come back as I suspect you might always question whether or not she gave the test her best effort and would wander if the scores shouldn't be higher. I'd look at what your immediate goal is (which I think is more challenging work at school?). Testing *is* one piece of information that can be used to advocate for more challenging work, but until your dd has moved past the stage of not showing teachers what she knows, testing alone is most likely not going to get you the accelerated work (plus testing takes time, can cost $, and there's no guarantee that you'll either get the #s you expect or that the school will accept outside testing). What most likely *will* work - and will be most readily accepted by the teachers - is for you to help your dd learn to not play games and hide what she knows, as well as you collecting a portfolio of the work she's done at home.

For right now, immediately now, honestly I'd ignore the games. As long as she's getting attention and seeing that it's possibly bothering you, there's something in it for her (if she's truly hiding what she knows). You can also explain to her simply that if she wants more challenging work at school she has to be able to know the basics and show that she knows them. She may question why (and maybe you can question why inside your head) but don't agree with her question - explain that that is how the system works, and it's important to have that system in place so kids can't fake their way into something that is too difficult for them - explain that she may know but other kids might not.

If you find that some time goes by and nothing's changing, you might want to consider testing. My dd who vision challenges had many of the same behaviors re reading and re saying numbers/letters looked like other things closely related. With reading she really did struggle at times with words she absolutely knew how to read - it had nothing to do with her reading ability, but her vision broke down when she was tired/stressed/etc. I don't think that's what's up with your dd, but it's something to file away in case this becomes an ongoing issue.

Best wishes,

polarbear

Ditton this. My son who has recently been diagnosed with a vision disorder had many of the same behaviors re reading and re saying numbers/letters looked like other things closely related. With reading he also really did struggle with words he absolutely knew how to read - it had nothing to do with his reading ability, but her vision broke down when she was tired/stressed/etc. He would confuse W with M. p with q, a and e, etc. etc... For over a year he was berated by his dad (sometimes by me I ashamed to admit) and by teachers for playing games and being defiant, etc. Just something for you and other posters to keep in mind...

Mmmm...Polarbear reminded me something I meant to mention as well. My ds is in K and reads very well and is usually pleased-as-punch to show it off (at least at home). But we notice that he tires really easily with reading/writing. I think this is a developmental issue. He can read 2-4 pages of a chapter book, but then his brain shuts down. He'll look happily at a science book for an hour, because he's skipping between looking at pictures and reading small 'bites' of informations. Like, Polarbear, not saying that the tiredness is ALWAYS what you are seeing...but it may play a role especially when she's tired or focused on doing something else.