Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Age or Ability Specific Forums Elementary School Consequences of being annoying

I just wanted to add that when DS6 was in K last year we had some social issues as well and I have a slightly different thought on what was going on. I don't really think it was "immaturity" as everyone seems to immediately assume. I think, instead, that it was a situation where DS was functioning at a different cognitive level that his classmates yet really really wanted to be in their "group". His reaction was to try to copy what he THOUGHT they were doing. To a kid who is much more interested in reading about the solar system than crashing cars it can be hard to interpret the behavior of others in the class. He would watch the kids around him roughhousing but when he would try to join in it would just be 'wrong'. When he would try to do what he thought he saw the other kids doing it just came off as awkward. As the year progressed he did get better at mixing with his multiple groups of friends (anywhere from K to Grade 3)but even now we have many conversations about being confident in one's self and not trying too hard to "be like" those around us. When he is just himself (albeit sometimes a toned down version of himself) he is much more comfortable in his own skin and it shows to those around him.

Exactly - throw in some overexcitabilities, and little justice orientation, and the teachers on some unconscious level wanting a child with a grow up vocabulary to have emotional management skills to match, and yup, there is a perfect storm for 'annoying behavior.'

He may be annoying, for whatever reason.

And there may be natural consequences.

But the teacher's job, especially in such formative years as kindergarten, is to not only help your child navigate appropriate social interaction with peers, it is also imperative that she teach your child's peers appropriate responses. Telling a child, "I don't like you" may be normal, but the teacher should be correcting the group by teaching them better communication techniques. I.e. "When you knock over our blocks, we don't want to play with you." That is a very different message that is better for your child to hear, because it gives him something concrete to work on, and it is better for the other kids, because they learn to draw boundaries appropriately.

My DS6 is fairly good at internalizing rules and modelling behavior. How this plays out is that he "uses his words" politely and fully with an adult air. It's frustrating that this works quite poorly and comes off as annoying, but he is applying exactly the black and white rules inculcated through the school. It doesn't win friends or get consistent results.

There isn't much I could explain to him about the nuances. At some point the natural consqeuences will illustrate what is and isn't effective and hopefully he learns the complexities.

I think the word consequence has morphed in recent years into a poor synonym/PC term for punishment. Which makes the teacher's words sound harsher.

I think the word "bullying" has become overused. When I was growing up it would mean hitting someone or threatening to do so unless they gave their lunch money. Now it has been redefined to include "shunning". It is not possible to come up with an objective definition of "annoying". If a few kids in the OP's son's class find him annoying, how can they be proven wrong? If some children don't want to play with my kid, I'd tell him to play with other kids.

From our district's handbook:

"For purposes of this section, "bullying" means any overt acts by a student or a group of students directed against another student with the intent to ridicule, harass, humiliate or intimidate the other student while on school grounds or at a school-sponsored activity which acts are repeated against the same student over time."

Who cares if it's technically "bullying" or not? It's a sad state of affairs if the school uses the definition as an excuse to not help the kids on both sides of this equation learn more pro-social behavior. We're talking about five-year-olds here. Saying, "Sink or swim, kid, it's a rough world," is a rotten approach.

Yes, we've had this problem for many years! DS10 has gotten better at recognizing what others are doing and being able to join in, but it's still a struggle sometimes.

My heart breaks for your little guy, too, asking all those questions about what is "wrong" with him. I get those questions at bedtime sometimes, and just have to walk away after a while because it's just too much for me to handle. I can't stand that he feels that way, and I can't stand that he can't understand the answers I give him, and I have to just go away and cry. It's so hard for them.

KJP, have you seen the same type of social challenge in other situations? I'd second the poster above who suggested sitting in during class a few times if you can. It's easy for us to assume that the teacher isn't handling the situation appropriately, but I've also had the experience of discounting what a teacher is telling me and later realizing that although the teacher wasn't spot-on with what was happening, she was catching on to *something* important that as parents we just couldn't see at home.

It sounds like this has impacted your ds' self-esteem - not sure if it's just what's going on at school or something more - but I would want to put my effort into understanding what's going on at school before I automatically rushed to the conclusion that homeschooling or finding a "dream" school is going to solve the problem.

Best wishes,

polarbear

I was just suggesting that the OP investigate with the teacher how it's different. I don't have enough facts at this point, but really I think the teacher handled it poorly. Kids should indeed be learning to work things out, but as it sounds like there is immature behavior by both sides here, I think the teacher can do more than just say "he was being annoying, he needs to learn to deal with it." Maybe it was just poor communication by the teacher, and maybe the OP's kiddo was being annoying, but it still seems a bit harsh for the first couple weeks of school. More appropriate would be teacher intervention that teaches the kids better ways to handle the situation. (And again, I wasn't there, I was just reacting to the OP's first post.) But yes, I do think certain types of exclusion can be bullying. Not nice to encourage that in kindy.

ETA: And I think sitting in the classroom and observing is a fabulous idea, if you can do that without disruption.