Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Testing Advice Help

On behalf of my sister, her DD clearly has some sort of language /reading comprehension issues that have never been concretely identified on testing other than she tested average IQ despite her very bright nature /advanced math ability and brother /mother who are both MG.

However, as a very driven child, she maintained straight A's last year in school, as she has learned to compensate for her struggles. She will be in 9th grade this year. Should her parents attempt to pursue further testing to accurately define the hidden LD, or is it moot since she is do motivated to compensate ? I worry about the increased pace and abstraction in high school for her.

Do they have any further information on the IQ scores other than that the composite/total number was average? I'd expect to see some significant scatter in a 2e child whereas a child with a truly average IQ who achieves highly due to good work ethic, etc. would more likely have a lot or most of the scores falling in the average range throughout the test.

I have a 2e child and part of what you say at the end resonates with me and part not, but of course not all 2e kids look alike. I, too, worry about pace for my 2e kid as she progresses through school not b/c she is slow, but b/c she reads very slowly, it gives her headaches, and I worry that she'll have a hard time keeping up with the reading quantity in high school when she gets there. OTOH, abstract reasoning isn't something I worry about at all b/c that is a very strong area. I don't know if lower abstract reasoning is typical in 2e or if you're dealing with a different type of 2e than are we.

If there really is a 2e issue, I don't think that figuring it out is moot just b/c she can compensate. Mine can too.

Thanks Cricket....yes reading comp is probably more the issue. I mentioned abstraction in the thought of the greater emphasis that is placed on reading at home to understand a new concept. I don 't have her scores, but I recall there being large spreads in her scores leading them to further test for ADHD and CAPD (both were not identified). Her focus is admirable, which is why she pushes despite her struggles. She hes always reminded me of a CAPD kid...using big words improperly (but near the correct word), struggling to follow verbal directions appropriately, not understanding inferred jokes. But I know her reading is very slow (her father reads extremely slow as well and reread things but solves problems brilliantly as a cryptologist).

Like Cricket, I'd be interested in knowing more about the actual spread between subtests - the further testing for ADHD/CAPD *might* have been because there was significant subtest spread, or it might have been because of behaviors/symptoms noted or concerns expressed by teachers/parents, or because of observations of learning style etc.

Whether or not she's 2e, if she seems to be struggling or have a challenge with reading (or anything else that impacts learning) - jmo, it's worth following up with further testing. Compensating may be "working" but she might also be missing out on opportunities simply because she's compensating, and this may start to impact her ability to achieve what she's capable of as she gets farther and farther along in school (and in life).

Just for an example - we have dyslexia and related disorders running rampant in my ds' family - but this wasn't something anyone recognized until the current generation of *younger* grandkids started school, struggles, and were identified with various related LDs. One of the older cousins had some challenges with reading when she was young and received help in school to learn to read, but she was never tested in a way to identify the cause of her struggles, and she was never officially diagnosed with an LD. She did really *really* well all the way through high school and even through college - but at the same time ,she spent much more time reading for comprehension than her peers did, so she missed out on extra-curricular activities in many instances and general social stuff because of the extra study time. Had she not been as driven a personality as she is, she might not have done as well in school. And it doesn't stop there - all along when she had standardized testing, her math scores rocked, but tests that depended on reading, while they were good scores they were *somewhat* lower than her math/writing scores. They weren't, however, low *enough* to raise any kind of red flags, and she was buzzing along very successfully from the looks of everything on paper - but no one else noticed a trend in those reading scores relative to the others, and no one else had a clue that way back when she was in K/1 she'd been in a special reading program or that reading continued to take her longer than her peers. Then - at the end of college - a very successful undergraduate run - she wanted to go on into med school. She missed getting into med school because she didn't qualify on part of the MCATs. If she'd had an LD diagnosis, she would have most likely been eligible for extended time on any type of standardized testing, which from what she's described, is really all she needs to allow her to show her knowledge on standardized testing. It wasn't until this time that she really became aware based on what she saw going on with the younger family members that she most likely had an LD and she did go back to her college disability services office to try to seek accommodations, but in order to do so she would have had to pay for neuropsych testing herself and didn't have the funds.

So - sorry for the long story! But please show this to your sister - it's going to be much easier to have her dd evaluated now than it might be when she's a young adult living on her own.

Best wishes,

polarbear

ps - fwiw, undiagnosed LDs can also cause social and emotional stress that can go unrecognized. Even though he was diagnosed much earlier in life, living with his disability before he had a name for it and an understanding of it took a toll on my ds - having a name for it, knowing it wasn't something that was just "weird" about him or quirky, helped him not feel so different or helpless in the areas he struggled.

My ds has an expressive language disorder - long long ago when I first met my fil, everyone in the family warned me that he didn't make conversation. He was just seen as that was his quirky thing, that was him. I'm guessing now he had the same type of challenge my ds had - and to be honest, I think we might have all gone a few steps further in trying to include him in our conversations had we realized it.

polarbear

Thanks so much for the personal stories. The feeling that testng won't mean anything is from her parents. I think it was so frustrating to go through testing where they were basically told she was "too smart to get any help from school"...and this by a private practioner!

I will definitely be sharing these ideas with my sister. Thanks so much!

Evemomma, many of us moms of 2e kiddos here (as well as *many* moms I know IRL of kids who aren't gifted but have challenges that cause them all sorts of trouble at school) often here the "too smart to get any help from school" comment - from teachers, from parents, from private professionals etc. I've heard it about all three of my kids, all three of whom have needed help. There are several ways to look at this, but please don't ever let the "too smart to get help from school" comment stop you from advocating for your child and seeking help (Evemomma - this isn't directed at you, but at other parents who might be discouraged by the remark). YES, it's discouraging!!! But there are still tons of things you can do to help your child.

A few thoughts:

The school *has* to test if there is a suspicion of an LD. They may ultimately say the student falls above the cutoff to be eligible for services, but if a parent turns in a written request with a reasonable suspicion of an LD (or even just an observation that their child is struggling in some way) and some evidence to back it up, the school either has to agree to providing an evaluation or has to state, in a written response, why they will not test. If the school says no to testing, the parents can then appeal.

One thing that the parents may already have a gut feeling about, and that they would find out in much more detail with testing is - is whatever that is going on something that is always going to impact the child this way and accommodations are needed but nothing further, or is this something that can benefit from individualized instruction or therapy etc.

Re testing, even though the school is legally required to test (or provide a reason why they won't test), most parents get more thorough and more complete and ultimately more helpful information through private evaluations. Medical insurance will sometimes cover an evaluation. The difficulty with school evaluations is that sometimes only the bare minimum of testing is attempted, the testing is often focused at one very specific area of suspected challenge (but many of us who's children have challenges have first strongly suspected one type of challenge only to find out through thorough testing it was something entirely different that we hadn't seen), school testing may come with a bias to try to *not* qualify a child, school staff will sometimes not inform a parent of things relevant but instead agree if the parent initiates the request.

It's really helpful to have a parent advocate to work with or ask questions of if you go through the process of attempting to get testing and services or accommodations through school.

It's easy to get focused on school, when really the challenge and what's important is *life* - not just school, but outside of school and beyond school. If the school system basically turns into nothing better than a brick wall and you're beyond frustrated and think it's hopeless to get help there - it is, believe me, worth it worth it WORTH it to pursue help outside of school. We were able to advocate for and get an IEP for our 2e ds, but the help he's had that made the largest impact on his academics and looking forward into what will be most helpful after school is said and done, all came through private professionals. It's not where we'd hoped to have to spend money when we were starting out as parents and had no clue about what challenges were to come... but it was money well invested, and honestly, if we'd left everything up to the school system, our ds would be a mess at this point.

Your niece is obviously doing very well - but there may be more going on underneath re how she's feeling or struggling or just not having life as easy as it could be if she had some help with reading. Keep advocating and helping look out for opportunities for her!

polarbear

Thanks for such a helpful and encouraging response .