Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment So...did WPPSI...on to Stanford Binet-LM

I'd apply to DYS when he hits five -- lol! Those are great scores and sound like a child who is performing at his ability, thus not stunted by a poor school fit. Congrats.

Results from the SML-M is in the PG range. Whatever this means. In a way I am not surprised at all. This explains what I have been suspecting with DS but pretty much been in denial about.

I did ask numerous questions about the test and received the information that it still IS an excellent test to find the EG/PG children out there. Had he been in the MG range the results would not have been much different than on the WPPSI.

Again, I am taking this for what it is. Going along with our original plan and I guess time will tell what will happen down the line.

I'm belaboring a point, so I'll beg your forgiveness right off the bat! Before I go there, though, it sounds like the WPPSI and WJ-III scores are PG anyway so I don't question the SB-LM in your ds' case or, honestly even know if it was necessary to tell you that.

That aside, in regard to the statement that MG scores would not have come out much different on the LM, which I assume the GDC told you, the only data available online about WPPSI and WISC scores vs SB-LM scores for kids who've been tested on both does show some significant score changes for both kids with HG-PG scores on the Weschler scales and kids with MG or below scores on the Weschler scales. It is on Hoagie's and has kids with scores in the 125-130 range who wound up with 145-170 scores on the LM as well as one with a 112 FSIQ on the WPPSI who then got a 178 on the LM. All of the kids with scores in the bright-MG range saw significant increases on the LM.

Carolyn's notes say that,

Off soap box... sorry I'm just not a big fan at all of using the LM anymore although I know that the GDC disagrees. Your little guy sounds like a great candidate for DYS, though, and like he'll be an interesting one to watch grow up with his passion for learning.

Cricket2, you are right. The WJ-III and my own intuition pretty much made the SBLM scores make sense.

I think my last statement didn't fully explain what she said tough. Basically a PG child can test MG on the WPPSI and finally get the full extent of their abilities on the SBLM. A MG child who IS actually MG might not see as much of a difference on the SBLM.
That is how it was explained to me.

For DS his WPPSI scores were drastically reduced due to his vision issues. We are taking him to have his eyes checked.

A question for all of you. Do you have any experience with siblings of a PG child? I am wondering about DS2.5.
When I asked about one child being PG and one not gifted at all Silverman said that is pretty much impossible and that in most cases the are fairly close to eachother in range.

WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK ABOUT THIS?

I don't know that I'd agree that it is impossible, but I would consider the possibility that your other child is also gifted and due to personality or other things is not as outwardly obvious about it. I do believe that there is pretty strong evidence for heritability of intelligence, but that doesn't mean that everyone in the family MUST be gifted, just that the odds are greater that others will be if one is.

My one who is less obvious about her giftedness is also 2e, so that's another possibility but I wouldn't jump to that conclusion unless other things point in that direction.

In re to the LM showing PGness that is hidden on more modern tests, I'm still not convinced, honestly. The earlier article seemed to indicate that it was creating scores not simply revealing them. I'd like to see it renormed with a modern group of kids including average kids to be convinced, but I know that isn't going to happen. It isn't relevant for your kiddo, though, anyway since he didn't test MG on the WPPSI.

eta: in re to the article I mentioned, that was from the other recent thread on LM vs extended norms.

I disagree with it is impossible, as I know people it is their reality to have ND and PG kids. OTH, My DD5 and DS12 test 2 points apart on FSIQ. They have very different strengths. IMHO, When you have a little guy as off the charts as yours, the other kids in the family may not look as strong, but in all reality are just displaying their abilities in a different manner. I would not worry about testing a 2.5 yr old anytime soon, but I would consider it in a couple of years. I would be careful not to dismiss things because they are different then your older child's development. My DD looks very different in development compared to her brother. DS12 was an intense, driven, loud, and proud display of his abilities at 5. DD5 will not show you her ability to do something until she is confident she can do it. She spent at least 6 months telling me should could not read despite a lot of evidence to the contrary. She went from not rolling over or sitting up at 6 months, I thought she might have delays because it was so late, to walking before she was 11 months old. She just seems to wait until she is good and ready to show her stuff.





I really dislike the use of SBLM. I think in this case it doesn't change the outcome as your DS is clearly consistently PG in other tests. I think too many parents could get an inflated score on an outdated test and put their children in situations way beyond their ability or have expectations that are unrealistic. IQ tests can have strange and intense reactions for parents and the bell can't be unrung on for them. There is a reason no one (at least that I'm aware of) will accept the score as legitimate for the entrance into a program. My tester mentioned that my son could test on it for giggles, but it's a useless number in terms of information to be gained from it

Jtooit, you are right. Because of DS4.5 INTENSE drive to learn and his interest and knowledge in so many different from a very early age areas it is easy to compare and think DS2.5 is not gifted or at least even close to being as gifted.

Many times I am in awe and sure DS2.5 is way out there as well judging by the things he says and does. Much more insightful, intuitive, thinks about things with way more detail, picks up on peoples feelings, notices more detail etc. than Ds4.5 ever did. But I then think and compare that at this age DS4.5 was obsessed counting to 1000+ while swinging, making words, copying books on the computer(at about 32 months of age)and I think that DS2.5 can not be gifted to the same extent.

Like you said, they all are different. I also think because DS4.5 is the way he is DS2.5 might pick a different route to not have to compete. Don't get me wrong. DS2.5 is an extremely fast learner. He is reading more and more words everyday, understands how to sound out words etc. But he is not as serious about it. Last night he was sitting with a book picking out all the words he knows. Then he got bored and started to goof off picking two words and saying "all" was "soon" and "soon" was "all". Switching them all up and cracking himself up while doing it...LOL!

It is just interesting to hear from others experience what the sibling differences are. I am not having DS2.5 tested anytime soon. Probably a couple of years or so IF I feel it is warranted.

I think the actual data, weak as it is, is that 2/3 of the time the scores are withing X points (5? 10? I can't remember.)OF course that leaves 1/3 of the kids who are more than X points away.

One thing is for sure. If one sib is PG, and well into the PG range, like yours, even if the other kids is MG, MG will SEEM quite 'not gifted' to people who live with the MG and PG sib.

This is just human nature. I would venture that to over 60% of the adults here, real live MG folks 'seem' 'not gifted' to us in our daily lives. 15 points is a Standard Deviation, and that's quite a bit.

The other thing to take into account is that second borns have many fewer 'party tricks' than their older sibs. Non first born (And here I classify anyone with a sib gap of 4 of more years as 1st born) are usually much higher in Emotional Intelligence, more flexible, longer fuse kind of people. They are used to Mommy not giving full 100% attention and instant response. I believe that these are good things, heartbreaking as they are to us Moms.

But I wish I had a nickle for every parent who thought that their 2nd born was 'less gifted' because the kid was 'less obvious, and less miserable looking.' We, who should know better if anyone anywhere does, have stereotypes about what gifted is - miserable, low EQ, and highly interested in showing off what they know academically.

But some 2nd borns aren't gifted, rare or not, there has to be someone, right? Many are gifted, but aren't similar in LOG. Lots are just as gifted but make darn sure you wouldn't know it. Some are just as gifted but have additional challenges that make the giftedness hard to experience, on the inside or on the outside.

My .02

Grinity

Sorry we crossposted. Anyway I just read yours and you are on the right track.

Great idea not to formally test the baby for several years. I'd wait for a reason, like school placement or applying to DYS - but I would use the http://www.talentigniter.com/milestonetracker just to keep your feet on the ground. It's free, and will help you remember and be less shocked when school starts for younger.

Smiles,
Grinity

This is my DD. If you could label at kid PG in emotional intelligence, it would be her. She is an insightful, compassionate, and a problem solving kid. She has yet to have a disagreement with a peer. She will mediate discussions with friends that are having trouble coming to an agreement about something. I find she will perform according to what she believes you are going to hold her too. I started telling her I would read her a bed a bedtime story after she read one to me or to one of the dogs. I have a golden retriever that will sit and listen to her read to her. She will performs academically but her motivation is different from her brothers motivations.
She will write the grocery list because she likes being helpful. She will read a harder book I put in front of her in order to get her favorite books read to her. My approach to her is very different, but she seems to be becoming more and more internally motivated. She is a sponge like her brother just not flashing all of her blink blink


We have a 7 yr gap but it still holds pretty true for our #3.

I guess I owe you a nickel