Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Assessment results - questions

Hi, my son is 6 1/2. We had an assessment done about a month ago. Below are the results:

Here are the test results:
IQ tests (normal is 90 - 109), p = percentile (WISC-IV):
Verbal Comprehension: 128, p=97
Perceptual Reasoning: 123, p=94
Working Memory Index: 138, p=99
Processing Speed Index: 109, p=73
Full Scale IQ: 131 (very superior), p =98

Achievement (standard scores of 90 - 109 indicate average compared to age mates), GE= grade equivalent (WIAT-III):
Word Reading: 142, p=99.7, GE: 4:2
Reading Comprehension: 128, p=97, GE: 7:5
Pseudoword Decoding: 123, GE: 3:1 p=94
Reading Composite: 144, p=99.8

Numerical Operations: 135, GE: 3:0, p=99
Math Reasoning: 143, GE: 9:4, p=99.8
Math Composite: 148, p=99.9
Listening Comprehension: 130, p = 98, GE: 4:8

His WIAT scores were higher than expected based on his WISC scores. He is weak in social judgment, application of that and practical knowledge in social situations, ability to evaluate past experiences, and knowledge of conventional standards of behavior. She is working on him with these.

Does the gap between Processing Speed and the other scores indicate anything to any of you about a disability or area of concern? His teacher says he is not writing like she expects him to. He does not like to write but I don't know if he has physical difficulties with it. I only thought of it after reading the threads about dysgraphia and fine motor skills. When do I know if I should see an OT? He also has a very curved back and poorly developed abdominals. His doctor said it is because he has grown so fast his body can't keep up with it. He was given toe touches and ab exercises but I can't get him to do them.

I've also read on this forum about a GAI but his doctor has no clue what it is or how to calculate it. Is it important?

Any ideas on schooling? We don't want to skip 2nd grade as he is a very young 6 (July) and a little emotionally immature and skipping to 3rd would dump him right into TAKS (the Texas testing). We've thought about homeschooling but he and I butt head quite a bit.

His behavior is different when he hasn't been in school (like during Spring Break, he was helpul, amiable, did his chores, and we enjoyed our time together). Is he bored at school? I have a hard time getting him to get ready to go in the morning. He says "I want to go to school but I don't want to get ready". He also has said, in response to my question "Are you happy at school?", "well, I'm not very sad".

I can post his subtest scores if anyone is interested. He is in the Gifted program at school (but just "barely" and "with much discussion"); it is only 1 1/2 hours a week (when the GT teacher hasn't been pulled off to help the special ed teacher or something else.

I hope I didn't post in the wrong place and I guess I ended up venting my frustations more than asking questions. I apologize for that. I'd appreciate any advice or suggestions.

Thanks, Dottie, I'm on my way out so I'll read your post more carefully later. On the math reasoning, I thought it was a typo as well, but the doctor said it is not. Is AE "age equivalent"? What makes you think they don't match, so that I can ask the doctor again? I'm a little disappointed in her knowledge.

By the way, my dog's name is Squirt. Well, was. We were very sad to have her put down in December. Ironically, it was the day my son brought home as a reader "The Puppy Who Wanted a Boy".

Wow, Dottie, spot on! His Vocab score is 16 and Similarities is 19. Comprehension is only 9.

I'll check with her about the math thing, althought it isn't really all that important. It's not like I'm going to send him to high school based on that number. I don't have a raw score, just a standard score and percentile and GE. I did think it interesting that his reading comprehension GE was 7:5 but the percentile was only 97. She said it was something about statistics that she didn't understand.

About school, they are not willing to do subject level acceleration and they have refused in the past to do pretesting, curriculum compacting, or any of the other things that would give him above grade level work. We meet with them tomorrow to discuss next year (we've given up on this year) and to show them his results and ask how they are going to meet his needs. I don't really know what to ask them to do for him. He obviously needs to do something other than 2nd grade reading or math (given that he has grasped the fundamentals). When he finishes his work early now, he is allowed to do a "2nd grade brain teaser" or write in his journal.

Other than the 1 1/2 hours a week he is in the GT class, he is in class with 21 other kids, ranging from not reading at all to him. He doesn't get much attention. The teacher has even said "I don't meet with Jared's reading group as often as I do the others because he doesn't need me as much". Which is why is reading has regressed over the school year. Much of their "language arts" this year has been Saxon Phonics, coding letters. They'll continue to do phonics in 2nd grade. I am just afraid (and maybe even convinced) that they are stifling the love of learning out of him and pushing him into their nice round hole. Maybe I'm wrong and he's not bored.

Thanks for the reassurance.

I don't think so. Here they are:

Vocab: 16
Similarities: 19
Digit Span: 17
Letter-Number: 16
Coding: 11
Block Design: 15
Picture Concepts: 10
Symbol Search: 12
Matrix Reasoning: 16
Comprehension: 9
Information: 15

My husband thinks his low score on Comprehension reflects that by that time in the process he was bored or wanted to get on with more interesting stuff.

Do you have any idea why Psuedoword Decoding is relevant? From what I understand, which is limited, it is the ability to read nonsense words.

I'm skimming "A Nation Deceived" again to see if I can glean something from it. I'll take a look at the Iowa Acceleration Scale and see what it gets me. I'm not hopeful of convincing them to do much for him.

Numbers are interesting, as are the way they are used. The GT teacher told me that the GT program is for kids at 131 and up and the regular classroom is for kids 109 or below. I guess those in the middle just poke along!

Hi Squirt! Welcome!
I think that that quote reveals the extent to which the current standard way of doing things is to look at a Full Scale IQ as a single number. The quote kind of assumes that all kids who score 131 are 131-ish across the board. (Not that I think that there is such a thing as 131-ish but yes, practically speaking, a lot of MG kids are well accomidated with the 90 minute a week pull out program.) You son may be too strong to get much out of the program is his strongest areas.

I call this a 'spiky' profile - fun that your ID is 'sparky.' I encourage you to encourage the school to try to do what he needs, and you may be able to take the 'Just try him and see' approach. In the meanwhile, make sure his afterschool and summer experiences instill a work ethic, and try to provide opportunities to soar outside of the classroom. Also get his hearing checked - literal hearing as well as Auditory Processing - if he is missing small nuances in social situations that could be causing his bottleneck.

Remember that you can do the best you can, for now and that later you might be able to do better. Your resources will be few and far between, but I believe you can do quite a bit for your son - it will just take some time. Your own family members may have similar stories to tell - shake that family tree a bit, ok?

Best Wishes,
Grinity

Where do I get Literal Hearing and Auditory Processing testing? An audiologist? I'm not even sure what they are, but you make a good point.

Meeting with school was not so good. They did decide to have his 2nd grade teacher pretest him on math and reading units so that he doesn't have to do all the stuff he has mastered (given that whichever teacher they assign to him is even willing). But, they want to use that time to have him work on his weaknesses (creativity and writing), which is good and bad. I'm not sure how they'll get him to do that. I can see this in his head "Hey, I can pretest out of this math and reading stuff but then I have to write, hmmm, I think I'd rather just keep doing math".

Dottie, not to beat a dead horse, but is it your opinion that having him restested in a couple of years might change his scores and qualify him for more programs? When his social comprehension is better? Or, is the thought more that "what you've got is what you've got"?

Explain it to the school along these lines: if you had to spend all day, every day, doing what you dislike in order to "improve your weaknesses," would you develop a love for learning? Or would you hate going?

For every minute he has to spend trying to get better at something he's not so good at, he should spend at least two minutes in areas he loves. Preferably more. (That's a hint from Dr. Amend, and it's been great advice for us.)

Kriston, I like that 1:2 minute quote. Who is Dr. Amend?

Dr. Ed Amend, a noted GT expert and author of useful books. He tested my DS6 on a bad test day, but he still gave us some really useful advice that ultimately led to retesting and DS6's qualifying for DYS, among other things. In short, he's one of the good guys!

Here's Dr. Amend's website: http://www.amendpsych.com/

Hi Squirt.
About abdominals and such: no 6 year old wants to exercise. Have him do more outside - riding a bike, swinging, climbing, lots of "heavy work" pushing and pulling things. That's how a child develops core strength. If he actually has enough core weakness to be assessed as having hypotonia (not as uncommon as most people think) then low muscle tone could be influencing his willingness and ability to write. Good postural stability is needed to have good distal control of the arms/hands/fingers in order to write. This is what gets addressed in OT - developing the core foundation for stability in order to allow for ease of arm and hand control.

I couldn't agree more with Kriston about the balance between what he needs to work on and what he's already good at and loves. Somewhere I had read a little story about a group of animals that went to school and how the rabbit was forced to learn to swim and never got to hop, how the eagle had to learn to climb and never got to fly, how the cheetah had to learn to fly and never got to run, etc all because of the idea of "one needs to practice what you aren't good at". I'm sure you get the moral of the story. I can't remember where I read it, but the story was intended to be a commentary on our public school system and how we force our children to work all the time on what they are NOT good at and never give them a chance to develop their natural talents.

There's a lot involved in the why your son doesn't like to write. It could something like his level of perfectionism or it could be due to some delays or disorder. It could resolve in time and all even out or it might need a little help (aka: intervention). I'd work on getting the academic needs settled and then take another look at the writing if it doesn't start developing.

About behaviors, I'd say that some of the immaturity or problems you are seeing in school in terms of social/emotional stuff might just be linked to boredom. You describe a different kid at home. My son was awful about going to school and much of it resolved when we bumped him up another grade for math. He still is bored with the pace of the class, but things are a lot better!