Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment New here, hoping for thoughts on DS's evaluation

Hi y'all,

I've been lurking here for about two months, reading huge chunks of the archives for something to do while waiting for the psychologist's report and I've finally got it.

DS7 is in first grade, public school (birthday right after the cutoff, one of the oldest and smallest kids in his class). He's clearly a smart kid, with smart underachiever parents. I got one email too many from his teacher this year complaining about his lack of focus; that finally put me over the edge and we decided to have him evaluated privately. (My husband was not convinced that this was advisable or necessary.)

School's over in a week and a half, so my plan is to do as much as I can over the summer to get the ball rolling. I don't have a feel for how accomodating the school will be; I've heard good and bad reports from different folks around here.

Scores

WISC-IV:
FSIQ 134, GAI 137

Similarities 16
Vocabulary 15
Comprehension 11
Block Design 16
Picture Concepts 16
Matrix Reasoning 19
Digit Span 13
Letter-Number Sequencing 16
Coding 6
Symbol Search 17

WIAT-III:
Word Reading 136
Reading Comprehension 131
Pseudoword Decoding 133
Oral Reading Fluency 115

Total Reading 135, Basic Reading 142

Numerical Operations 120
Math Problem Solving 156
Math Fluency Addition 88
Math Fluency Subtraction 80

Mathematics 140, Math Fluency 84

Alphabet Writing Fluency 90
Sentence Composition 107
Spelling 102

Written Expression 98

There was also a full neuropsych evaluation.
ADHD inattentive
Disorder of written expression
Dysgraphia
(The dysgraphia I most definitely agree with and the ADHD I'm inclined to say...probably so.)

Sorry this is so long! I'm hoping that some of you oldtimers can offer encouragement and maybe even some advice

Mo

I am NOT an expert, but from the reading I have done for my own children, the pattern of PRI much higher than VCI, processing speed low (particularly coding low) and and Comprehension much lower than vocabulary is a pattern that is common in children PDD, Aspergers or Autism. Given how difficult milder autism spectrum disorders can be to tease out in the gifted I just wanted to flag whether this had been considered?

Did your tester suggest specific accommodations and/or a medication trial for the ADHD? You probably want to follow up with your pediatrician about medication, if any, and set an appointment with the school to talk about the testing. Your DS is clearly going to need accommodations, perhaps working on a computer, extended time, reduced assignment length, etc. and the school has to get on board.

Are you public or private? If public you need an IEP or 504. We are at a private school so I can't advise you about that process but lots of people on this board can. Your DS' testing profile is almost exactly like my DS, who is also ADHD and dysgraphic. Your DS WM score is quite high though. It makes me scratch my head about the ADHD. The WISC could never be used to diagnose ADHD but ADHD kids are usually low in WM and PS. Just an observation. I am sure the neuropsych went into this fully through other testing. Perhaps this is why his ADHD seems borderline to you.

Your DS is VERY bright and likely both bored and struggling with his normal work. He is likely not getting work challenging enough for his intelligence, especially in math, but getting the answers on paper is very difficult for dysgraphic kids. Along with accommodations he needs an opportunity to work ahead in his areas of strength. No one likes to remediate their weaknesses all the time!

Be sure you lay your groundwork before school starts so you have a plan Day 1. Also, one important lesson I have learned from these boards is that if you can't get enrichment through the school, especially in math, you can easily add that in yourself. Lots of options are available: Art of Problem Solving, Kumon, Singapore, EPGY and ALEKS to name a few. This is the way we have gone to give my DS enrichment.

Those are my two cents for getting started. Good luck!

Hi fwtxmom, thanks for chiming in! The testers specified all the accomodations you've listed, and several more besides. It's a public school, so the plan is to get an IEP in place for the fall.

The report talks at some length about his strengths, but the summary at the end is focused on the LD stuff without explicitly stating (or re-stating) the importance of challenging work, even though in our interpretive meeting they agreed that this was important.

These folks are local and familiar with the school district. I've heard positive things from friends who are clinical psychologists about working with the school to get what kids need. The school district talks the talk re:2E but I haven't seen it for myself. At least they recogize it exists.

There's a self-contained gifted program for grades 4-8 with accelerated work, but I don't see that as our goal. There was recently an article in the University's student newspaper about an 11yo middle-schooler in the district (not in the self-contained program fwiw) who audited multivariable calculus in the fall and discrete math in the spring. (That's not what I'm expecting to happen either ). But I think it was a long slog for his parents to get him to that point.

Now, what was my point? Oh. I meant to say thank you! It's good to hear from folks who are in similar boats as I muddle my way through this. It's probably going to take a while for me to complete this brain-dump so thanks for reading.

Welcome! The patterns in your ds' scores are very similar to my ds' test scores at 8 (end of 2nd grade) when he was also diagnosed with dysgraphia, disorder of written expression and ADHD. FWIW, the ADHD diagnosis did *not* hold up over time. In our ds' case, the ADHD diagnosis was based on input from his 2nd grade teacher combined with borderline results of an attention test during the neuropsych exam. The behaviors that his teacher was seeing as problematic and typical of ADHD disappeared when summer started and he was no longer in the classroom where he'd been beyond frustrated with the combination of an unrecognized LD combined with lack of intellectual challenge. We started implementing accommodations and made a change of type of classroom environment in 3rd grade and that made a world of difference for our ds.

The one thing I'd do this summer if you do anything, is to have your ds start typing. BBC-Mat typing (online) is a fun place to start for early elementary kids - all three of my kids enjoyed it.

If your ds has pain from handwriting or uneven pencil pressure or a funky pencil grip due to the dysgraphia, handwriting OT might help. It can also help with teaching him the proper way to form letters if he is forming them bottom-up etc.... although to be honest, our ds never really did learn that in a way he can remember it (which happens with some kids with dysgraphia). Handwriting was really painful for our ds until he went through OT, so we didn't do intensive learn-to-write therapy when he was young.. but I think he most likely would have forgotten a lot of it anyway. He learned how to write cursive in 3/5th grade at school and has now completely forgotten how to write in cursive after not using it at school during 6th grade.

I would also turn in a written request for an IEP eligibility meeting now if you haven't already. Even though the process won't happen until the fall (I expect), if your school district is typical, there will be a lot of things going on at the beginning of the school year, and it can take some time to get requests put into action.

Best wishes,

polarbear

Thanks, MON and polarbear! (MumOfThree, I replied to you and it hasn't shown up yet--hoping it will soon)

So, I guess we're going to work on typing this summer Neuropsych also suggested Handwriting w/o Tears.

I've emailed the EC coordinator to let her know I'm planning on bringing her the report on Monday...and it sounds like I should include an explicit written request for an IEP eligibility meeting along with the report.

I am hoping that we'll have a similar experience, polarbear, where the ADHD magically disappears...but I have to say that I have thought for a long time that his dad is undiagnosed ADHD. I would like to try other things before going the medication route.

Of all the typing programs I have shown my two kids both prefer this one:

http://typingclub.com/

It's really simple, basic and clean, no games, no fun, no fuss. They both found the BBC one too, erm, something, noisy, distracting, I am not sure what, but they weren't into it. They are both happy to get onto typing club, do their thing and move on.

10 mins a day has been astonishingly effective for my 10yr old (ADHD-i, CAPD, dyslexia, sensory issues and borderline for Aspergers). 10 mins a day has resulted in much slower progress for my 6yr old (DYS IQ, no other diagnosed Es, excellent sensory integration but extremely hypermobile, hands/thumbs in particular, expected to be onto fulltime computer use by 3rd grade at the latest). It's been interesting to see the extent to which age really does impact them, because the younger one is in all ways higher ability and better integrated for age.

Hi MumOfThree, that one looks good! I wasn't familiar with it. Thank you.

Just thought I'd give input on the ADHD dx, especially if you are ruling out LD issues. ADHD symptoms display themselves in multiple environments. The DSM criteria state innattentive/disorganized/impulsive/hyperactive (or the first two only for innattentive type) must be present in at least three settings. These behaviors must also have surfaced before age 5. BTW, hyperfocusing can also be a symptom (ie getting so engrossed in a computer game/Tv show/lego project they don't hear the 'outside' world and struggle to change from the task. Kids I see often present with a dislike of tasks requiring mental effort with minimal stimulation (puzzles, wordsearches, coloring, organizing anything but are usually my most talented video game players due to their ability to
hyperfocus on highly stimulating tasks.

I want to second what Evemomma pointed out (above). When our ds was initially diagnosed with ADHD during his first neuropsych eval at the end of 2nd grade, he had symptoms commonly associated with ADHD but they were *only* present in the classroom or when he was faced with a task he couldn't perform at home. The home behaviors took awhile to understand, simply because we hadn't realized until that time that he had dyspraxia and dysgraphia. The other clue for us to was that ds had none of these behaviors present until he was in school, which is the first time he was in a situation where he was expected to be able to write.

Our neuropsych has a chart that shows the overlap between three types of diagnoses that children can receive - the ASD spectrum, ADHD, and another type which I can't remember the name of (but it's where our ds is, where dyspraxia comes in)... all three of the circles for each domain overlap in a big way - behaviors that are seen in one place can also be present with a different diagnosis - and sometimes it takes time (maybe years) observing and multiple professionals to really understand what's going on.

In any event, whether your ds has ADHD or doesn't, I'm guessing that his dysgraphia is causing him a lot of frustration as well as (perhaps) the difference in his PRI vs VIQ abilities. What most of us find with our 2e kids is that we take what we learn through evaluations, start accommodating or remediating one step at a time, that helps with frustrations in one area so then you can begin to see your child a little more clearly and you take on the next step. Not sure that makes sense! Basically it's a journey that you take one step at a time, and you're off to a good start with the information you have so far!

Best wishes,

polarbear