Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Scores! Diagnosis!

The problem with the new DSM definition is that it requires a repetitive motion or tic along with the other requirements (previously only required for a Autism diagnosis, not Aspergers or PDD). Now, any child who doesn't also have repetitive motion problems won't meet the criteria... I'm just focused on one year at a time...

Amy, it doesn't actually require tics-- a repetitive interest would qualify.

http://www.dsm5.org/ProposedRevisions/Pages/proposedrevision.aspx?rid=94

DeeDee

Is that now the complete DSM for ASD? That is, that's it now, in total? All previous criteria are thrown out? Interesting. I wonder how practitioners are going to react to this change on the ground?

It's interesting that restricted interests are no longer considered necessary. My DD has never had this and it's always been a point of hesitation for me, since it's generally considered such a major feature of ASDs. She does really like birdwatching, but she would never talk about birds to people who are not interested in them--in fact, she deliberately conceals the hobby at school because she's aware it's a little odd. She also goes days without talking about them or birdwatching.

I have read some stuff saying girls with ASDs are different and that things like "reading" or "art" may be their obsessive interest...but come on. I just don't know that we could consider a gifted girl who loves to read to have an obsessive interest in reading that counts as an ASD trait.

Ultramarina, I agree. I kind of think that's why we got a suggested diagnosis of Asperger's this year--that DD8 loves to read and will sit for hours reading all kinds of stuff. Also at school she was resisting her teachers' efforts to have her 'advance' in math by doing 2-digit multiplication and division, and then 3-digit, and then 4-digit...she was bored silly with it and kept going back to her fraction work. I guess that qualified for the B criteria, because I've never seen any of the current "B" criteria from her, although she does have social issues. If they do change the criteria to encompass kids who like to read, I would expect the "rate" of Asperger's to go way up. Hooray, more diagnoses--diagnoses all around!

I think both my daughter and myself more clearly meet the new criteria oddly enough. Maybe she'll move from borderline to diagnosed when it comes in.

DeeDee - I do realise my few sentence was simplistic, but it does follow that that a language delay is likely to lead to a lower VCI, unless there has been significant remediation or progress before testing. And Aspergers, in my understanding, is supposed to include co-ordination issues which would potentially impact PRI. Though I realise we are all unique there is an expected pattern. Though how relevant that will be anyway as the DSM5 comes in I am not sure.

I would just like a clearer answer than "maybe" on my own daughter.

No, the DSM-5 is not finally approved yet. What I posted was the draft. It's still being argued about, for example here: http://thinkingautismguide.blogspot.com/2012/06/how-dsm-5-dsm-5-draft-autism-criteria.html


It would depend on how she's using the interest. If it's the major means with which she can get herself under control when she's upset, or if it is so compelling for her that she avoids social interactions that are fun for other kids, it can be a trait.

My DS's special interests at an early age were math and science. If he was upset, working with numbers was very soothing for him. He would add large columns of numbers repeatedly if he needed to calm himself down. He also happens to have it as a serious academic interest, but its use made it definable as a special interest.

I don't think this leads to "diagnoses all around"-- but it does help call attention to the trait of autistic people to use objects (and sometimes the people around them) in unusual ways.

DeeDee

I think the new criteria will capture a few more of a certain kind of person, while not excluding people who were diagnosable under the new criteria. I hope that the particular case of girls is clarified better in the new DSM.


Not necessarily. My DS didn't talk much at all till he was 2, but came in at that point with his ABCs and sentences. You can't assume linear growth/progress.


The coordination problem does not affect all people with AS and is not considered diagnostic. Syndromes are like family resemblances, where nobody has the full collection of features.


I hear you! The maybe is really hard to deal with.

DeeDee

Thanks DeeDee.

I know for DS he never had a language delay, and still doesn't have any problems with language, per se, but with communication. He knows his vocabulary words, can spell, etc. However, he has a lot of difficulty with certain areas of communication, especially decoding other people's intents/feeling and properly expressing his own.

I didn't think to ask the Neuro at the time, but I am curious to know, what the deciding factor was for DS to be PDD-NOS vs ASD. Or if, by meeting the criteria for PDD-NOS that excludes ASD? I still don't entirely understand how that works.

The big thing for me is that having a diagnosis of PDD-NOS means that DS now qualifies for a whole list of special services that only apply to kids on the spectrum. (I forget the names, but there's basically a special state law related to IEPs for kids on the spectrum, due to the fact that they often don't have academic delays, but still need special help.)

I can't wait to meet with the new school! I'm making myself wait until after we come back from our trip to the beach in July. (I did shoot an email to the principal, but am not really expecting a reply any time soon, as I know how end-of-year tends to be.)

This is very interesting, my DD received the exact same diagnoses (ADHD, PDD-NOS, Anxiety, and situational depression) her WISC scores were very similar except reversed on VCI/PRI - she spiked in VCI with the PR being the lower one.


I would love to know more about what services they provide, it's too late for my DD but I am curious what we would have received if we had gotten the diagnosis earlier. I am still trying to figure out what supports would be helpful to ask for in college.

I am not sure about the ASD/PDD-NOS question either, I was told they don't give the ASD diagnosis anymore so I assumed it was just the new term for HFA but my DD keeps telling me she does not have ASD, just PDD-NOS so I guess it's spelled out somewhere.