Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Help! Requesting subject acceleration in English

We are requesting subject acceleration to the 7th grade honors English class next year for dd11, currently a 5th grader.

She started at her current elementary school the first week of March and will switch to the middle school in the fall.

VCI--148
FSIQ--143

Explore as a 4th grader:
English 23
Reading 19

This is a hypercompetitive district with tons of GT identified kids and lots of driven parents and a heavy workload. I could actually request a full-grade acceleration but I think the transition to the middle school will be a challenge to dd's organizational and time management skills and I would like her to go through that transition with the other 6th graders.

There is a "request for acceleration" form that they apparently use for a full-grade acceleration request, and they use the IAS for that. I sent the middle school principal an e-mail saying that we were requesting subject acceleration to 7th grade honors English for next year and this was her response:

"I did get your letter. We place students based on test scores. After the CRCTs this year, we will receive information about all of our rising 6th grade students. We look at each one individually and place them based on criteria. If a student is already served through the gifted program, we are required to serve in at least one area. Some of our students qualify for more than one AC class. I have kept your letter in our placement file and will look at dd's scores when we get them."

Please help me word my response. This seems like the kind of request that may require more time to make happen than the regular grade level honors classes which they place kids in, which is why I would like to get the ball rolling now. School ends at the end of May and begins mid-August.

Thanks for your advice!

That is a tough one. Do you know any families who have been through similar? If the district is good at identifying GT kids then maybe this IS routine for them.

I guess I'd ask how many 6th grade students were placed in Honors English 7 this year, to get an idea of how unusual this request is.

BTW - The year before the change of building is said to be the one that is key for the organizational skills growth. What about revisiting the idea of applying for a whole grade skip? You can perhaps 'back out' partially once you have the approval, or even wait 3 months and see how it's going.

If you dd isn't 2E, then it's quite possible that she'll have a nice challenge with the time management and org skills. She may not be a straight A student right off the bat, but how satisfying for everyone to see her work for it! Do 7th grade grades count in your district? Can you put her in a private school to repeat 8th if she isn't ready for high school at the end of 8th with the full skip?

Don't you wish that there was a little table, or an iphone app where one could program in the IQ scores, and info about the school district, and 'bing' out would pop a prediction about the outcome of various educational outcomes?

If she isn't having a wonderful time socially and is actively unhappy academically, I'd go for the full skip. If she's doing 'fairly well' and you just want to 'tweak' I'd consider afterschool mentoring, or apply for the full grade skip and then back out at the last minute, trying to keep the LA acceleration. Socially, I think that before high school subject accelerations are more difficult socially, except for the few kids who are very very at home in their own skins and seem to like it.

Let us know - good luck!
Grinity

Grinity,
I love your input...thank you.

I don't know how routine it is. I think the parents are good at getting the kids identified. There is a policy for acceleration and they use the IAS. But my impression is most parents think it is sufficiently challenging and know the high school is a pressure cooker. I think there is a large work load and most parents think the kids don't need further acceleration (although I did find one anecdote online where a parent went through the process for a full grade skip in elementary and it seemed smooth). But I guess most of their kids aren't in the 99.9th%, right? I don't get the impression the principal is familiar with Explore or the IAS or DYS.

She has only been in school a month. Honestly I think she could benefit from being with the 6th graders. I think it will be a big change in expectations, and she needs the practice in 6th grade (i.e. she is overwhelmed by this gifted pull-out project on frogs...setting the deadlines for herself, breaking it down, etc.)

She has made some friends (of course the girl she has clicked the best with is going to the other middle school) but I do think she will have same age friends in the orchestra and drama programs. She is pretty at home in her own skin and seems very confident that she wants and can do the 7th grade English. (proud of herself for finishing Pride and Prejudice over spring break.)
Here is the e-mail to principal--please give me feedback!

"Dr. X,
Thanks for getting back to me!



I apologize--I think I may not have provided enough information in my letter.



Dd has been idetified as gifted by the school district and is currently receiving gifted services at xxxxx. She is a candidate for the Davidson Young Scholars program (as soon as her mom finishes the application!) Based on data we already have, and according to input from specialists in the field of gifted education and the Iowa Acceleration Scale, she is a good candidate for full-grade acceleration.


The IAS addresses every factor that any parent, teacher or administrator has ever considered, including size and motor coordination (Dd is in the 95th% for height and weight), behavior (We like to think she is very mature and well behaved!), social participation, both inside and outside school activities, even attendance, motivation, self-concept and attitude towards learning. And given most weight are the ability and achievement tests, particularly in and out of grade level achievement tests. Rather than a full-grade skip, we would like to focus on her greatest strength, (language arts) and request that she be placed in the 7th grade Advanced Content language arts class, while remaining with her age peers in 6th grade for other subjects. The following is the data we have so far which is used in the IAS:



WISC IV: 99.9th % Verbal Comprehension Index, 99.8% Full Scale IQ



Terra Nova Complete Battery (I apologize I don't immediately have the report in front of me--but in both 3rd and 4th grade she was in the 97th-99th% in Reading and Language)



ACT Explore (nationally normed for 8th graders) English 98% compared to 8th graders, 98% compared to other gifted 4th graders; Reading 91% compared to 8th graders, 94% compared to other gifted 4th graders; Composite 85th% compared to 8th graders, 89th% compared to gifted 4th graders



According to the report from the Belin-Blank Exceptional Student Talent Search at the University of Iowa, students who score above the 50th% are ready for enrichment plus accelerative options, even in an exceptionally high-achieving school like xxx with a large percentage of children identified as gifted. I am interested to know what percentage of 6th graders at xxxxx take the AC Language Arts class.



I understand the criteria for placement includes the CRCT scores, but I read on the district website that a request for a full grade acceleration can take up to 9 weeks to process, and even though we aren't asking for a full grade acceleration but only subject acceleration, I wanted to get the ball rolling, as we believe that her needs will be most appropriately met in the 7th grade AC class. I know there is a Reqest for Acceleration form but I don't know if that applies in this case.


We appreciate your guidance in this matter, and are looking forward to working with you and to dd entering xxxx. Thank you for your assistance.


Warm regards,

S."
p.s. I am copying the gifted ed. department for their input as well

Do you know when the CRCT results come in? I am left wondering about the principals statement re placing based upon CRCT results means that there will be a group of 6th graders placed in honors 7th English, or if she's just putting you off. You might ask for more clarity on that point - even if you know she's just putting you off

I also might be tempted to talk to the GT staff at your current school (the pull-out teacher?) before responding to the principal - get his/her take on whether or not you will be successful in your request, as well as getting their input on the likelihood of your dd being successful with the subject acceleration (you don't need that for *you*, but if you've had the discussion and it's favorable you can use that as additional evidence supporting your request).

I'd also consider (and I'm not sure on this - this is just a thought! - and whether or not I approached it this way would depend partly on what the gifted pull-out teacher told me about the middle school) - first, responding a thank-you to the middle school principal, then sending the bulk of what you've written to the gifted department staff person at the middle school rather than the principal, and asking if they concur your dd would be a good candidate for 7th grade Honors English. After you have her feedback, then send the details to the principal, cc'ing the gifted department staff. Or maybe it's better in your district to make the appeal through the central head of Gifted Services? Sorry I'm rambling... just thinking out loud about perhaps a different way to approach rather than right away going back to the principal, as the principal sounds disinterested or adamant on waiting for the CRCT scores.

Good luck!

polarbear

My feeling is, yes to the bolded! I don't think they typically place any 6th graders in 7th grade classes. I think your advice is good though...and probably the route I should take. Should I just e-mail the head of gifted services for the district?

edited to add: I just don't think the gifted pull-out teacher knows dd that well yet. And they gave her some stupid creativity assessment and moviation assessment that I don't think she did that well on...but it is probably a good idea to go ahead and ask for her feedback because I am sure it will be asked eventually in this process so I know where she stands.

Excellent. Personally, I'd just ask for the full skip and then pull back after it's approved for the 7th grade LA. I'm not sure why. I think it exceeds most normal people's working memory to tell them "She is an excellent candidate for a full grade skip but we only want LA." Much easier on folks to get their approval for a full grade skip and THEN say 'you know, she might be better of with a subject accel - let's do that instead.'

Along the lines of the old joke 'We've determined what you are, now we are just haggling over the price.' yes?

And remember, that in most negotiations, one needs to ask for about twice as much as what one wants, so that the negotiation partner can walk away thinking 'I was a great negotiator - looks what I talked them down to!'

And BTW - your letter is great - but please get the little jokey tone out of it - I get it, but it looks like weakness or nervousness to an outsider. You can't exactly add a smiley to show that you are joking.


Grinity

Hey Grinity!
So the problem with asking for the full skip is that dd doesn't want it...and while if she were younger, like, 6 or 7 or 8, and I really thought it was the right thing, I would make it happen. But I know if they ask her if she wants a full skip she will say no, and I would assume that would be a deal breaker for the school. FTR, when I asked her in January what her thoughts were, I did not let her know what I thought, and I told her that I was sure she could do the work in 7th. She seemed to feel pretty strongly about not skipping (but equally strongly that she wants the English acceleration) and again when I asked her a few weeks ago what she thought she said she didn't want to skip 6th (and I really don't think that my thoughts on it influenced her). I totally get what you mean about the negotiating aspect of it--I suppose I could present it that way to dd (we are asking for the full skip in order to get the subject accel. so act enthusiastic) but I don't think she would feel right about it. And I can't see it going very far if she tells school she doesn't want to skip.

oh and re: the jokey tone! I guess I should have used brackets instead of parenthesis--that was for this forum, not the school, lol!

So, this is the response from the principal:

"...we can certainly look at full-grade acceleration, if you like. However, we do not single subject accelerate in English/Language Arts. The top 20-25% of our 6th grade students will participate in our AC classes, and we place those students in each content area based on criteria. In most recent years, the students that are placed in our AC Language Arts range from about the 95%tile- 99.9%tile. Hope this answers your question-"

So I just went ahead and asked for the full skip. Principal at elementary school has to get me the form to fill out and she will be the one who decides. (according to esablished procedure including IAS) I told dd it would also make her orchestra class more interesting (they have it every day) and that may just be what sways her. She was very excited to have read Pride and Prejudice over spring break but has no one to discuss it with (besides me!). So.

This is probably a really stupid question. And shows why I probably need to be on the couch...but is it possible for a psych inexperienced with gifted kids to overestimate the WISC score? I mean I guess given the Explore results it must be accurate, right? And she will be able to keep up, right?

Gah. Oh to have just a typical child...of course I don't really mean that, I love all of my kids. But geesh. If it isn't one thing it is another!

Reassure me about the skip! Please!

Hoping if we get the skip that the work load isn't too outrageous. She plays violin and wants to do theatre and she also plays tennis--I just want her to have time to do the things she loves and get what she needs out of school.

edited b/c I posted before I finished

You know, some days I wish school administrators had to take a comprehensive course in statistics before they were allowed to wave them around. 75th or 80th percentile in his school is 95th percentile for the population as a whole? That seems tremendously statistically unlikely.


I suspect that worst case scenario is a month or two of rough adjustment period, assuming she's got age-appropriate executive function skills.

Since math isn't her strength area, I'd watch out for her being tracked into a lower-performing math track as a 7th grader than she would have been as a 6th grader. I suspect she'll have a better experience if you push for the top track in math and work over the summer to get her ready for that.

I am hoping for subject acceleration in LA for my DD8 next year and it sounds like our school might, might do it. But DD8 is probably a good candidate for a grade skip. I have not been able to track down the Iowa Acceleration Scale materials (at least not without buying my own-ugh) but I am guessing that she would be a good candidate-except that she doesn't want to, and that my DS11 assures me the grade ahead of her is full of "stinkers."

Her WIAT scores were normed for 2nd grade (where she is an older 2nd grader based an August birthday and July cutoff at our school) and were DYS level. They were also age normed for 3rd grade (where she could be based on age) and her lowest composite for third grade was 128 in math. Her LA composites were 134, 136 and 158 when normed against current third graders. She did not hit any of the grade based ceilings for the WIAT. I am not sure if this means what I think it means but the numbers seem to say her academic achievement is already pretty high for a third grader. Will she be wasting her time with just subject acceleration if she doesn't skip?

Sigh. I wish there was an app or something to predict the best course, as polarbear has suggested. Put in the numbers and out comes the right decision.