Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments Which math class?

All that the GT teacher told me was that his score was "very good". I am planning on having a meeting with the district math coach and others in the next few weeks - but I always feel better going into a meeting having an idea of what scores mean and what I should ask for ahead of time. Otherwise, I sometimes feel that my suggestions and observations are dismissed. Having print outs (like the one the second poster above listed) is even better. The math coach mentioned something about an Algebra readiness test several months ago, I'll be sure to bring that up again.

This is really good information, and I love what you wrote about if you are always the smartest person in the room, maybe you are in the wrong room. DS10 absolutely it the type of person who needs to be challenged - or he goofs off and finds his own entertainment. Thanks!

CAMom - I watched the entire Richard Rusczyk lecture that you posted and am in complete agreement. I would rather DS10 be placed in a math class where he is challenged and maybe gets a B, but makes growth than a class where he gets an A but repeats things he already knows. After watching that lecture, I am also thinking of signing him up for the AoPS AMC-8/Mathcounts class that starts at the end of May. There is also a CTY course called "Honors Problem Solving in Pre-Algebra" and I thought that this might be good for him to do now, even though he is technically beyond Pre-algebra. The problem solving approach of both of these would seem like good preparation for Algebra 1 in the fall. Plus if he received a good grade in a CTY Honors Pre-Algebra course, I'm not sure that anyone could argue with the placement. We typically do some type of CTY course in the summer anyway - DS10 needs the stimulation. There are no competitive math teams in our area, but I really feel like MathCounts would be an excellent opportunity for him (and others, I'm sure) if we can find someone to run it. Thanks for all of the direction - I'm going to have to see if I can find some more Richard Rusczyk info/lectures, it was really good info.

Hi Melisa,

That's great! I actually 100% agree that you don't want to be the smartest in the room, etc. I just think so much has to do with your district percentiles, and it's better to use those as a gauge than the national numbers. You can better know what to expect from his classmates when you consider your district numbers. These are available on the NWEA reporting sheets, but usually just for the grade your child is in.

I have an older child, so I'm able to look at the MAP NWEA percentiles for different grades, using that history. So you can see that a 247 in math in spring of 5th grade puts your child in the 96th percentile nationally vs. other 5th graders, and it puts him in 91% vs. 6th, and the 82nd percentile vs. 7th graders. You are talking about skipping him up 2 grades in math, so you'd be placing him where he is currently above 82% of the kids doing that math. But if your district is strong, he could be much, much lower than that. For example, in my district, a 248 is only the district AVERAGE (ie 50th percentile) for 7th graders. So here, someone moving into that class with those peers would not be a particularly strong student. I think acceleration at that level is often reserved for kids who will still be above average in the situation they are moving into. If you are in a smaller district with lower-performing students, it may make sense to even move him up 3 grades!! So much of what is relevant will have to do with your local conditions, plus the abilities of the teachers to fill gaps and/or compact parts of curriculum your child may already have been taught.

Good luck with your decision, and I guess my only advice is to pay attention to your local numbers/situation. If your schools are flooded with brilliant kids, you probably don't need to accelerate as much to get a rigorous math class, but if not, it can make a lot of sense.

I'm glad you liked it Melisa!

Rusczyk has several articles posted on the AoPS website. You can also get videos for the Pre-Algebra class on the website for review and a feel of the AoPS style. I would hazard a guess that it is far harder than the kind of math your son may be used to doing! We also use Alcumus (the online program with AoPS) extensively and it may be worth having a run through the problems over the summer.

I hope you have success with your meeting and you're able to advocate for Algebra placement for your DS!

C squared - you are totally right about matching the district numbers. Our district is very low-performing. Our high school is 14th from the bottom in Colorado out of something like 180 schools. It's terrible. I think it would be a good idea to ask at the meeting for the mean NWEA score of the kids entering the 8th grade Algebra 1 class. My guess is that DS10's score of 247 is at least within that range, if not above. Does anyone see an advantage of having DS10 take the AoPS Algebra 1 course online AND the 8th grade Algebra 1 class, or is that too repetitive? My guess is that the course at school will move a bit slow for him and maybe the AoPS one would be good as a supplement to compact some of the ideas - but I don't want to overkill

I'd look at the curriculum and even talk to some teachers/kids/parents that are at the middle school about the curriculum. Depending on what they teach it could go either way. My DD is in 5th grade taking a 6th grade class at the middle school this year and it is great. While not super challenging, I have seen her mature in process/thinking wrt multi-step problems. Things she could do before she is learning to do more efficiently, etc. While I could potentially test her to skip the 7th grade course and take algebra, I decided that actual 7th grade was soon enough. Mainly based based on the fact that even though she gets it easily, she didn't test out of the comprehensive unit pre-tests. Since everything builds and I saw her maturing, I decided to leave it alone. Also, anything after geometry isn't offered at the MS so we'd be back to switching buildings and bad schedules. Also, in our district once you hit algebra you take high pressure end of course tests to get high schools credit. I figured there were enough other transition things for MS. We're adding band which should be a good challenge.

Just saying my eyes have really opened to how much different (and likely better for us) to be out of the elementary grades.

Good Luck

PS (Mine's still getting 100 in the class but is doing different interesting things each day. Not the same thing for 2 weeks-pace is better).

Just realized that maybe it sounded like I meant to not accelerate. I just meant depending on the curriculum you might not want to go all the way to Algebra. My kid is one that could likely muddle her way through a lot of problems and get answers right but not be efficient at a solution causing difficulty later on since everything builds in math.

Melisa, does your middle school have some kind of math placement test? To make allowances for differences in school populations and grading, around here everyone is required to take a middle school math placement test. If not, it may be worthwhile asking how they make placement decisions and tailoring your response to their established system.

I know that you are in an area of the state where options may be limited. If you can't get what you need through your local district, you may want to look at online options. There is an online CO state charter school (Provost Academy) and several Front Range districts are offering online options. I don't know exactly how the funding works but you shouldn't have to pay for it.

Your post reminds me that when my DS was in 2nd grade, he used to be bored to death in math class. He got into many troubles in the classroom with the teacher every week. School had mandatory MAP tests 3 times a year, DS scored in 250s at that time, but his teacher was dismissive regarding DS' ability and only addressed discipline issue. Things changed dramatically in DS' 3rd grade. New principal came in and they started new GT program. GT teacher pulled DS from 3rd grade math to 5th grade GT math. A few weeks later, his teacher told me that they have to move DS again because his comprehension and retension was far better than the best 5th graders in her class. And DS' MAP score (268 in mid term 3rd grade) proved that too. The schedule mismatch made the next move quite tedious. We are very lucky to have the new principal to work it out. GT teacher even sit in DS' first math class with 6th graders just to make sure he felt comfortable. And he did. DS9 is now working with 7th graders in pre-algebra. Still not much challenge for DS as he was still best in the class. But the real deal is having opportunies to take the AMC8/mathcounts with the peers matching his math ability. That made DS very excited.

The NWEA 6+ Survey with Goals was the "math placement" test that the district math coach recommended after I repeatedly asked for someone to administer a math placement test this whole semester. Honestly, I don't think it is an issue that comes up often here since all of the schools are considered "failing" by state and federal standards. There are actually only 3 more years on a 5 year timeline that the district has to get their act together before the state takes over the schools, which is frightening. With that in mind, you would think that they would be bending over backward to keep a kid like mine in the district - he is not as advanced as many kids in this forum, but in comparison to the kids here he is light-years ahead. I am unsure whether the school board knows what it is like to have to jump through all of these hoops and be so pushy to try to get DS what he needs. I am thinking of letting them know, but I want to make sure we get a placement for him for next year that will work for him before I make too many waves