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    Joined: Jul 2011
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    Originally Posted by La Texican
    I don't read it either. I read here, twtm, fb, my emails, occasionally The Stir, and a whole load of Amazon Reviews. Just saying I was shocked to read Mr. W being mocked. I've never seen anything mockworthy posted by that family. And the hygiene was a reminder that they're not real strict here about it only being gifted 24/7.
    I meant for it to be a reminder that the forums are public. Sadly, it proved the other issue of, "why do they get to relax and post about other peoples flaws, and that other article "I'm annoyed by gifted people", or whatever. Why do they get to say that, yet we shouldn't post that other people's babies are slow? Feels like the old, "you should know better because you're smarter than they are. We expect more out of you". Right?! Ouch, those two sentences sting.

    But do we want the right to be crude in our discussions of other groups of people, like them? I like that this forum has a lot of down to earth, sensible people with a lot of down to earth ways to implement and apply them.

    And now iM starting to feel a little guilty because I'm all talk, talk, talk -and I might have just de-railed an entire thread, which nice regular posters wanted to have and would have been interesting to read, I'm sure. I might have just waited and watched and threw out a story of my own and been part of a conversation instead. Sometimes, I'm "too smart for my own good". Which is a nice way of saying I have a big mouth and I know it all. Darn.
    My apologies to 1111 & Annette. I over-reacted.
    I'm having a Dabrowski's moment.


    Do we want to be crude... and shouldn't we "know better"?

    I was thinking about this, actually. Did you see the big debate we just had on this thread about whether or not we were being insensitive? That doesn't even happen on other forums!!! That right there says a lot about this forum and how "crude" we are even willing to be. We occasionally throw out observations that might hurt feelings or sound judgmental, but then we go and question whether it was really nice or right or not.

    So, I'm not really worried about it. We're human and just because we are "smart enough to know better", doesn't mean we always have to be perfectly polite and PC. I also don't expect myself to be perfectly mature 100% of the time. Cuz I'm not. And I don't know any other adults that are perfect, either, so I forgive myself for it.

    I think it is great that we try to hold ourselves to high standards, though. We should probably recognize that our standards are often higher (perfectionism) than the standards other people are trying to live up to, though, and so we might give ourselves a break, you know?

    Last edited by islandofapples; 02/19/12 04:33 PM.
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    Originally Posted by islandofapples
    I was thinking about this, actually. Did you see the big debate we just had on this thread about whether or not we were being insensitive? That doesn't even happen on other forums!!! That right there says a lot about this forum and how "crude" we are even willing to be. We occasionally throw out observations that might hurt feelings or sound judgmental, but then we go and question whether it was really nice or right or not.

    I thought the potato cooking assistance was particularly nice and not crude or judgmental at all.

    Without my feelings being hurt, I now understand the problem I was having with what I now hope to be my formerly partially-crisped, soon to be totally-crisped potatoes.

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    Oh yeah, and I love the trivia tidbits that come out of the blue around here but totally solve a random little mystery.


    Youth lives by personality, age lives by calculation. -- Aristotle on a calendar
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    You know Jon there is an awesome book on the science of cooking (title of which completely escapes me, making this post fairly useless). It delves quite deeply into the perfect way to cook a potatoe and WHY. WHY to par boil your roast potatoes. WHY they must be cooked above a certain temperature. Etc... My roast potatoes are much better for a random dinner party conversation with the owner of said book.

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    Originally Posted by islandofapples
    I was thinking about this, actually. Did you see the big debate we just had on this thread about whether or not we were being insensitive? That doesn't even happen on other forums!!! That right there says a lot about this forum and how "crude" we are even willing to be. We occasionally throw out observations that might hurt feelings or sound judgmental, but then we go and question whether it was really nice or right or not.

    I definitely like hanging out out in a place where the standards are high. I flicked through Trolls with Wooden Spoons just now and had to quit after a few minutes because I 1) felt my brain starting to harden and 2) don't want to take another shower today. Yes, it's that bad.

    Originally Posted by islandofapples
    So, I'm not really worried about it. We're human and just because we are "smart enough to know better", doesn't mean we always have to be perfectly polite and PC. I also don't expect myself to be perfectly mature 100% of the time. Cuz I'm not. And I don't know any other adults that are perfect, either, so I forgive myself for it.

    Another thing I really like about this forum is that most of us are pretty opinionated, and that's okay. Most places don't tolerate the breadth of opinionation (?) that we take for granted.

    Last edited by Val; 02/19/12 06:19 PM.
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    Originally Posted by MumOfThree
    You know Jon there is an awesome book on the science of cooking (title of which completely escapes me, making this post fairly useless). It delves quite deeply into the perfect way to cook a potatoe and WHY. WHY to par boil your roast potatoes. WHY they must be cooked above a certain temperature. Etc... My roast potatoes are much better for a random dinner party conversation with the owner of said book.
    Pretty sure it is Cooks Illustrated? something like that--my brother gave it to me for Christmas last year--I would check but it just got packed up in the moving boxes. I love the thing...

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    Originally Posted by islandofapples
    Originally Posted by deacongirl
    Originally Posted by islandofapples
    We could just tell the truth.
    "You sometimes learn things more quickly than other children. Yes, that means they take longer to learn things and may seem slow to you, but it isn't polite to say that out loud. You should try to be patient with other children like that. If you tell another child that she is "slow", you'll hurt her feelings."

    I would love if my child was more tolerant than I was of the slower children, but most of the time they drove me nuts. It wasn't just that they played games "wrong"... most of my frustration stemmed from the slow pace of school. I'm hoping homeschooling and introducing her to kids of all ages will help with some of that.

    Well, you can actually explain it that way without calling someone slow. I tell my son and his friends that it may take him longer to learn things, and he has to try harder. So yes, he is slower to learn, but if adults on this forum don't get that the connotation of calling someone slow is different than that I don't know how to explain it.

    And yes, I felt the same way about the slow pace of school as a kid.

    What I mean is that the child is likely to come to the conclusion that the other child is "slow" or "slower" and I think I need to explain we shouldn't be telling other kids if we feel they are slow.

    Feeling frustrated with a slower pace or a peer who doesn't get something is an understandable feeling, you just shouldn't be sharing it out loud with the child you think is slow or talk about that child, specifically, with someone else.

    Thank you for being sensitive to the feelings of other children and teaching your child to consider those feelings. I am obviously particularly sensitive about this topic, and I know it is complicated, and I do appreciate your intentions. Yesterday my 8 yo ds was very sad because he said someone at school called him stupid and dd4 asked what stupid meant. I had to think for a long time before opening my mouth, because the fact is my son is not ND, and it takes him way longer to learn all of the things that even those at the median take for granted. But if the rest of the world tried as hard as he does, and didn't give up, and kept the loving and positive attitude he does in the face of some extremely frustrating circumstances, it would certainly be a better place. And, again, yes, I very clearly remember being frustrated with the slow pace of learning in my schooling.

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    Originally Posted by islandofapples
    Feeling frustrated with a slower pace or a peer who doesn't get something is an understandable feeling, you just shouldn't be sharing it out loud with the child you think is slow or talk about that child, specifically, with someone else.

    It is a golden teachable moment to encounter someone who is different, and possibly less able in certain respects. We have seen in our school that kids who are educated about all kinds of human differences can respond with tremendous empathy and inclusiveness; they are more patient with their peers because they can understand and empathize. This is good for everyone.

    Disdain of others, by contrast, is usually hurtful. I can't see the point of it.

    DeeDee

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    Originally Posted by MumOfThree
    Island of apples - I am not dumbing down my day to day experience with a gifted toddler, it's not fun, I don't enjoy it, its utterly grueling, third time round has pretty much broken me. It's isolating, difficult and unpleasant, I am not saying "look we have problems too" and trying to fit in with the other mums - my child prevents me from having any opportunity to do fit in. I never get to talk to them and discover that we have nothing in common. I am just saying I do notice she is different and regularly wish she wasn't, although rationally I know her difference will serve her well in the future.

    Oh, I get this! I am having a frustrating morning because my house is trashed and my efforts at catching up are getting nowhere. A conversation I had a while ago with a 'friend' keeps playing in my head where she basically accused me of being a slob. I refrained from pointing out to her that she put her (one) child in front of the TV for 3 hours everyday so she could do her housework, and that even if I was WILLING to do that, my children would have dismantled the room if I'd left them there three hours with only TV. If I'd had three uninterupted hours each day MY house would have looked heaps better too.

    I am tired tired tired TIRED of fighting with intense driven children, even though I adore them and I know those traits will help them when they are adults. I would love just occationally to say "Tea's ready please wash your hands" and they wash thier hands and come to the table without one or the other debating if they REALLY need to wash their hands, the relative cleanliness of said hand, if they REALLY need to eat, if the food is acceptable, WHY they need vegetables, what specific vitamins broccoli has in it.....

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    I have a nephew with Down syndrome. I don't get frustrated with him because of his problems; he is what he is. I also don't consider him to be less of a human being. When he dies, as he will sooner than most of his age peers, the universe of his thoughts and emotions will be extinguished, a terrible thing and no less sad than my own death.

    I can no more join in putting down roughly average children than I can my nephew. I don't think of them as lesser beings-- I just don't ever "go there" by nature. Maybe that's the difference. I felt this way before my nephew, and before my son. I've always seen ordinary people as capable of great things, but it's really not about ability for me.

    So, for what it's worth, I am not eager to take offense on this sort of issue; I really took genuine offense at some of the comments in this thread, though not at the people making them. (From my phone)


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