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    deacongirl,

    Now that it's difficult to defeat my logic, you are resorting to character attacks.
    That's lovely. What a friendly debate this is!

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    Originally Posted by La Texican
    The point is there's ways to say things.  My own way of saying things has improved.  That's not censorship, it's acquiring a vocabulary for things that we're really just starting to talk about.  Grinnity has said we're inventing a vocabulary here because these things have not been talked about like every thing else in the world has.  Some things don't have their own words yet.

    Originally I said:
    I just googled, "non-gifted kids are sluggish".  No scholarly results came up to cite.  But a search for "gifted babies are more alert" produced tons of websites.  Isn't that the same thing?  
    ...
    I just thought it was interesting that tons of websites say "gifted babies are more alert" but none of them say "non-gifted babies are sluggish".  Omg!  Now if anyone googles those words they'll end up at this thread.  Me and my big mouthed fingers.
    End Quote
    (you can quote yourself, and you can talk to yourself, but if u answer yourself you got problems.(

    The point I was making is there's tons of articles on  major websites and a bunch of little websites saying, gifted babies are more alert.  None of them have said the words, "normal babies are more sluggish.". I wonder why that is.  Are they all just chicken?  

    Or does that one little sentence lack the nuance to really describe what you're seeing.  By itself the observation seems offensive.  I'm sure the observation wasn't made in a vacuum.  Maybe you can elaborate to provide what context you have noticed it in.  Unless it only exists in your head as an idea that grew out of the "gifted babies are more alert" thought.  


    Back on topic.  When I say, "what's the context you're seeing zombie babies in?" I mainly want to know if you think that about babies that you actually spend time with, or only babies you've seen in passing around town?  

    I've seen something that I might feel like calling glazed eyed zombie kids. Our library only does story time twice a week for a couple of weeks in the summer.  The kids listen to the story.  When the lady asks questions they are so slow to answer and the answers are a few words, not a few sentences.  And it's at most 2-3 kids answering.   Um., that's not zombie kids.  There's a word for that we call, "disengaged". ND kids get it too.  "Engaged" & "Disengaged" works on everybody.  Of course, I'm comparing it to my childhood memories of kids in Sunday School were the teachers were engaging and the kids were better trained to be engaged.  
    Another context is sleepy kids or sick kids in public.  You don't know.

    If you still think you've seen something observable beyond sleepiness or disengagement or sickness that looks "glazed or sleepy". Then you're going to have to do a better job of describing what you're thinking about.  Provide context beyond "I see a sleepy look on non-gifted kids".  Are you saying their senses seem dull?  How do you see that?  Also, how do you know they're not lost in thought?


    Youth lives by personality, age lives by calculation. -- Aristotle on a calendar
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    http://twentytwowords.com/2011/03/1...e-if-youre-having-a-rational-discussion/

    There's this flowchart on "having a discussion".  The first part had me stumped.  "can you envision anything that will change your mind on this topic".  

    How can you change something that's never in a fixed position?  I was told talking to me was like watching twenty ping pong games going on at once.  I've settled down since then.  But why or how would I have to change my mind if I'm not stuck in a belief to start with.  

    Well.  I don't have a belief about if gifted babies are alert or ND babies aren't alert.  I've got a lot of ideas.  I read that human babies are unique because if you rustle leaves near a baby deer he'll startle, but you can run a chainsaw next to a baby human and they'll continue nursing, as long as the mother doesn't act startled.
    Of course that's not always true.  Like I said, I don't have beliefs.  I have thoughts.  So I don't know how to have a conversation if I can't change my mind if it was never made up to start with. 
     
    Speaking of babies.. I hope mine's finally going to bed.  Her molar started breaking through and gave her two nights of pukey fevers.  Now it's taking a break, but she's got her days & nights mixed up.  There's more to come since they didn't break all the way through.  I've been dreading this.


    Youth lives by personality, age lives by calculation. -- Aristotle on a calendar
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    My intention was not to win an "argument", but to understand other perspectives and to decrease all the negative and erroneous assumptions in this thread.

    Clearly, I've failed in the later.
    Perhaps a more humble approach would have helped. Who knows?

    I've definitely gained some new perspectives, and debating helped to pass the time while I was overcoming the flu (almost over it).

    I thank you all for the knowledge/wisdom you have passed on, and I'm sorry that I was unable to do the same.


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    I just want everyone here to know that I value all of the people and perspectives I've seen in this thread. You've all given me things to think about, and thinking about things is one of my very favorite things to do. It's kept the discussion here at the house interesting, too. laugh

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    Quote
    I read that human babies are unique because if you rustle leaves near a baby deer he'll startle, but you can run a chainsaw next to a baby human and they'll continue nursing, as long as the mother doesn't act startled.

    There was nothing I this world more interesting to my first child that nursing, if she had to let go of the boob to see it, not worth seeing, she did of course make her best effort to take the boob with her.

    Child the third on the other hand, is nearly 2 and has pretty much always had trouble maintaining her latch, as an infant she was more interested in screaming and nowdays she's too busy telling me about all the things she can hear or is thinking... No need for a chainsaw, she can hear a feather drop in the next room and she needs to talk about it far more than she needs to nurse or to sleep.

    She regularly has weird conversations with people about "seeing the doggy" they say "there's no dog" then I stop and listen and eventually pick out a dog barking blocks away and have to explain "there's no doggy here, that doggy you can hear is somewhere else", all the while getting weird looks from the third party who still hasn't picked the dog noise at all.

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    Originally Posted by MumOfThree
     
    Quote
    I read that human babies are unique because if you rustle leaves near a baby deer he'll startle, but you can run a chainsaw next to a baby human and they'll continue nursing, as long as the mother doesn't act startled.

    There was nothing I this world more interesting to my first child that nursing, if she had to let go of the boob to see it, not worth seeing, she did of course make her best effort to take the boob with her.

    Child the third on the other hand, is nearly 2 and has pretty much always had trouble maintaining her latch, as an infant she was more interested in screaming and nowdays she's too busy telling me about all the things she can hear or is thinking... No need for a chainsaw, she can hear a feather drop in the next room and she needs to talk about it far more than she needs to nurse or to sleep.

    She regularly has weird conversations with people about "seeing the doggy" they say "there's no dog" then I stop and listen and eventually pick out a dog barking blocks away and have to explain "there's no doggy here, that doggy you can hear is somewhere else", all the while getting weird looks from the third party who still hasn't picked the dog noise at all.

    That is interesting. DD can't talk yet.. but she will hear a dog barking outside or hear a car pass outside on our not that busy street and she will make the sign for dog and car (while the window is closed, even). She also signs bird any time any kind of bird is making noise outside and she hears it while inside. One of the first times she signed dog, she was looking at us on the patio and her Signing Time DVD said "dog" way in the background and she signed it. I wondered if she has hearing issues, but there is no way if she does this.

    And she definitely wasn't a baby that would nurse through a chainsaw lol

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    Wimp Lo: Ha! Face to foot style, how do you like it?
    Chosen One: I'm sure on some planet your style is impressive, but your weak link is: this is Earth.
    * * *
    Wimp Lo: I'm bleeding, making me the victor!


    - Kung Pow: Enter the Fist (2002)

    Originally Posted by aculady
    I just want everyone here to know that I value all of the people and perspectives I've seen in this thread. You've all given me things to think about, and thinking about things is one of my very favorite things to do. It's kept the discussion here at the house interesting, too. laugh
    Ditto. And no matter what sort of gentle poking I may do, I understand the sorts of pressures and frustrations that may lead to expressions such as we've seen in this thread, just as with the recent bragging thread. I think islandofapples in particular, as OP, has shown quite some class during the extended discussion, but others as well.

    I do think things took an unfortunate turn in choice of language. Then we had a fun treat to different styles of internet argumentation techniques, some of which were honest and logically sound. In the end, I don't think less of anyone, and learned a fair bit.


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    Originally Posted by deacongirl
    Originally Posted by islandofapples
    We could just tell the truth.
    "You sometimes learn things more quickly than other children. Yes, that means they take longer to learn things and may seem slow to you, but it isn't polite to say that out loud. You should try to be patient with other children like that. If you tell another child that she is "slow", you'll hurt her feelings."

    I would love if my child was more tolerant than I was of the slower children, but most of the time they drove me nuts. It wasn't just that they played games "wrong"... most of my frustration stemmed from the slow pace of school. I'm hoping homeschooling and introducing her to kids of all ages will help with some of that.

    Well, you can actually explain it that way without calling someone slow. I tell my son and his friends that it may take him longer to learn things, and he has to try harder. So yes, he is slower to learn, but if adults on this forum don't get that the connotation of calling someone slow is different than that I don't know how to explain it.

    And yes, I felt the same way about the slow pace of school as a kid.


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    Originally Posted by MumOfThree
    Oh and for whoever asked, I HAVE had an older sibling ask loudly in the supermarket why our toddler was so much bigger, taller and smarter than all the other kids her age. That was yet another "will the ground just swallow me up now please" moment, I did not have a good answer ready and "she's not" would be patently untrue...she is all of those things.


    Youth lives by personality, age lives by calculation. -- Aristotle on a calendar
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