Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Oh my, calm me down please

Hi All!
Hope you are all well. I've been off the radar - so busy these days. But, I reach out to you all, as the only ones who EVER truly get it!!!!
So... to remind you, DS6, skipped K, in private "gifted" school, 1st grade, DYS.
Things have been going very well, with the exception of timed math. Not surprising, as he doesn't like to rush, and he is new to the school and math and it is a grade 2 math curriculum. He does perfectly fine on all areas - word problems, money, time, graphs, fractions.... but whenever they set the timer for straight up facts (9 plus 7...) and freezes.
SOOO, we met with the School Psych today to discuss it. She is a clinical PhD. She told us that:
1-SBV scores are elevated and only used by people trying to get their kids into gifted programs and that they are not reflective of true ability
2-That his IQ and Achievement tests will decrease as he gets older
3-that he doesn't appear to have number concepts (from a brief observation)
Was totally underwhelmed by his background and told us he probably has Sensory Intergration D/O because he is ambidextrous - "not established cerebral dominance".

I am not even sure what about this makes me so furious, but I am... And I can't stop being furious!!!!!!!

HELP

WOW! Okay I have never heard that about SB-V scores at all. In fact I was told it is often a better measure for younger gifted kids because of ceiling issues on the WPPSI. Some kids just aren't good with times tests. I never was, I would get nervous and freeze, did this mean I have no number sense...not at all, I actually have pretty good number sense. By the way, I still hate timed tests.

DD is currently working on 3rd grade math through Aleks to keep her challenged but I can tell you she is not a fan of timed anything. In fact, DD is just slow on about everything from getting dressed, setting the table, drawing, you name it, she takes her sweet time. Thats just her.

Also the whole IQ and achievement scores will decrease over time sounds like the old "they all level out argument" And granted most kids will eventually be able to read on an adult level so yes the kids who get their in 12th grade vs the ones who get there at 6, well they all got their, but typically being gifted is more in the way one thinks and perceives in my honest opinion.

Breathe, basically I don't know how you didn't go off on her right then and there! That makes me so angry!!!

Lukemac: What is the SB-V score? And why does it matter. Clearly he's doing well. Being gifted does not mean they are perfect, they never need help or guidance, or that they will do a task because the teacher thinks it's important.

I'd never encountered the timed tests until DD was in 3rd grade and I volunteered in the classroom. Not sure why this emphasis on speed is important.

Dh & I learned the hard way that school shrinks are often not gifted advocates. For a truly independent analysis of your child, you need to seek a professional outside of the school environment.

One more thing: Does it matter one whit that IQ drops? Of course not. They are gifted regardless of the IQ.

I'm furious on your behalf!

We were told virtually the same thing when dd13 was 7 by an OT. She, too, was somewhat ambidexterous and used both hands for threading beads in one of the tests the OT gave her. She saw this as pathological and dx her with SPD and dyspraxia based on what seemed to me to be nebulous evidence. All of the testing came out at age equivalent or way above with just one small thing coming out a few months below average for her age. The same scale we had filled out for a psych and which was used to say that she didn't have SPD by the psych was used to say that she did by the OT.

I guess that I've come to the conclusion that there is a lot of overlap btwn SPD symptoms and the overexcitabilities that come with being HG+ and that there is a lot of subjectivity to these types of diagnoses.

Re "leveling out," I'm guessing that a DYS kid isn't going to be "not gifted" in later years. I do think that all scores, IQ included, aren't set in stone and may change over time. If the arguement is that the scores may not be EXACTLY 100% a perfect estimation of his intelligence, sure. If the arguement is that he is actually average, probably not.

I think I would writing to the principal about her lack of knowledge of giftedness. A PhD-level psychologist working at a gifted school should know better.

Either that or it isn't really a school for gifted kids (was that why you wrote "gifted")?

Remember, you're a customer at that school. This gives you a bit of leverage.

I thought that being ambidextrous was a positive thing.

At least I've never heard associated with any sort of disorder.

I have learned so much from you all. I'd never heard of Sensory Integration Disorder before so I googled it. I have several of the symptoms as does DS, and my dad! And we're all mostly ambidextrous as well.

I want to point out that IQ tests are not the holy grail of giftedness. After ds did not make the cut for TAG we just assumed he was a high achiever and left it at that. But his teacher kept pointing out that ds was outperforming all of his classmates, several who were profoundly gifted. Another TAG mom suggested we have him see a psychologist. He took one look at the TAG test and said he suspected something wasn't right. (The district "expert" never said one word)The psychologist who tested ds, told us these tests can only capture IQ for 95% of all subjects. Guess who falls into the 5%?

Apparently, ds has abnormal brain processing and the IQ tests don't accurately reflect his true IQ. He's profoundly gifted in a couple areas, gifted in the others.
ETA: This was determined by academic testing.

This has given us tremendous ammunition in our quest to get services for DS.

OK, a few thoughts here. You met with the school psychologist. She's one person with one set of experiences who hasn't actually tested your ds (has she?). You're parenting your ds, so you know him better than anyone.

In our school district, I wouldn't be entirely surprised to see a school psychologist say something similar about IQ scores... because in our school district parents can apply for the HG program after having their children tested privately, and there are psychologists who do the testing who appear to slightly inflate scores to please parents. I also have a dd who was evaluated at 5 for anxiety and took the WPSSI as part of the eval - we'd never had any indication she was gifted but she scored solidly gifted. Two years later she had the WISC given as part of a neuropsych eval and she scored significantly lower, but with the same pattern among subtests. Which score is real? I'm not really sure! But I suspect the lower score is more reliable in her case.

Anyway, I doubt that any of that applys to your ds. Your ds is doing great with learning math concepts but is slow on timed math facts tests. There are a ton of possible reasons why he's slow on timed math facts tests that are entirely unrelated to his general intelligence. One possibility - which chances are isn't what's up with your ds, but it's something to keep in the back of your mind if other things come up that align with it - is that it could be related to his processing speed, or a handwriting challenge etc. Our ds is severely dysgraphic and simply can't perform quickly on timed math tests, even when he uses typing. But he is really really quick to pick up math concepts and always scored very well on and he did learn his math facts, although not as early on as some kids do.

The other thing that popped out from your post is the mention your ds is ambidextrous. That's another thing that is sometimes a sign of fine motor dysgraphia.

Is the timed math challenge holding your ds back in anyway? Are his teachers concerned? Do you think the school psych trying to say he's not qualified to be in the program? My suggestions on how to proceed depend on what your gut feeling is re the perception of his performance and whether or not it's an issue or felt to be developmental.

polarbear

I used to think so too! And we have a few ambidextrous folks in my family, including me

But it is associated with fine motor dysgraphia. Not everyone who is dysgraphic is ambidextrous and not everyone who is ambidextrous is dysgraphic, but the two occur together frequently. Dysgraphic kids also sometimes have issues with directions, knowing left from right etc. I think it all ties into the concept of cerebral dominance that was mentioned... but I'm not an expert or a psychologist or anything like that. I do remember very clearly though, sitting in a neuropsychologist's office when ds was 7 and hearing "he's ambidextrous" and thinking "Hey! That's cool!" until in her next breath the neurospychologist said "and that's not necessarily a good thing"....

FWIW, what "ambidextrous" meant for my ds is that he had no strong/dominant hand for any kind of fine motor task, from handwriting to tying his shoes and those types of fine motor tasks never became automatic or "easy". Not the same impact as my ambidextrous college prof who would start writing a fast pace with his left hand on the left side of the board while he was talking and then without skipping a beat switch hands mid-board to his right hand and keep on writing at that same fast pace.

polarbear