Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment WISC results - could use input please- UPDATED

It is my private hunch that pg women with adhd outreproduce pg women who aren't 2e....therefore that will describe a lot of our kids. It really says much more about the training of our teachers than it does about our kids.

Smiles
Grinity

I actually don't think that I am 2e FWIW, though. I have a touch of SPD like dd13, but not a major issue. Dd11's ADD, etc. seem to stem more from dh than me.

And I am NOT pg!! Maybe mg? And DH has the ADD. I have the OCD.
:-)

Oh, I should have specified that too! I, too, am not PG. I'm more in the MG- maybe HG area depending on how one defines that.

Thats my DD described there too. And wow Grinity that's a pretty interesting thought. Part of the last year I have spent coming to understand my own level of 2e-ness as I learn about my kids. I am also not PG, or if I am it's with the radically spiky profile of the 2e, and major, MAJOR under achievement... The thing that is most interesting about this to me is that as a 2e person myself I feel so ill equipped to deal with the demands of raising 3 gifted kids - one MG with major other Es, one HG/PG with some mild other Es by the looks and one that's too young to tell but keeps me REALLY busy. I am so often utterly overwhelmed by the sensory overload produced by three chaos monkeys and by the fact that I NEED order but simply cannot maintain it...

Ok. I have the updated WISC scores (tester went back and did additional sub-tests)in along with achievement testing. I'm not sure what to make of the WIAT scores other than maybe she had a bad day? Any input is appreciated.

Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children - Fourth Edition (WISC-IV)
(Mean = 100, Standard Deviation = 15)

Scale/Composite Standard Score Qualitative Description
Full Scale 141 Very Superior
General Ability Index (GIA) 148 Very Superior
Verbal Comprehension 142 Very Superior
Perceptual Reasoning 147 Very Superior
Working Memory 107 Average
Processing Speed 121 Superior

Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children - Fourth Edition (WISC-IV)
(Mean = 10, Standard Deviation = 3)

Subtest Scaled Score
Similarities 17
Vocabulary 14
Comprehension 16
Information 16
Word Reasoning 16
Block Design 13
Picture Concepts 17
Matrix Reasoning 18
Picture Completion 15
Digit Span 8
Letter-Number Sequencing 13
Arithmetic 10
Coding 13
Symbol Search 12
Cancellation 10


Wechsler Individual Achievement Test-Third Edition (WIAT-III)

Composite Standard Score Percentile Qualitative Description
Total Achievement 129 97 Above Average
Oral Language 123 94 Above Average
Total Reading 133 99 Superior
Basic Reading 139 99 Superior
Written Expression 128 97 Above Average
Mathematics 109 73 Average
Math Fluency 93 32 Average

Subtest Standard Score Percentile
Listening Comprehension 114 82
Early Reading Skills 112 79
Reading Comprehension 130 98
Math Problem Solving 106 66
Alphabet Writing Fluency 115 84
Sentence Composition 125 95
Word Reading 137 99
Pseudoword Decoding 127 96
Numerical Operations 110 75
Oral Expression 125 95
Oral Reading Fluency 130 98
Spelling 127 96
Math Fluency-Addition 87 19
Math Fluency-Subtraction 98 45

What does the tester think about the difference between the WISC and WIAT scores. My DS had very similar differences and that is what led to his diagnosis of stealth dyslexia. He was even diagnosed with dyscalculia even though he is in the highest math group his school offers (and making 98s, 99s and 100s without difficulty). It just makes you wonder what these 2e children could do if it weren't for that 2nd e.

I sent the tester an e-mail to see if he has any theories on the discrepancy in the test scores. We'll see what he says. I am wondering would the ADHD lower the WIAT scores like that? The WIAT testing was done on a different day than the WISC. Actually it was done over a two day period. The tester stopped the test early the first day because she was getting tired.

DS9 did his testing (WISC and WIAT) in 3 sessions over a couple of weeks. The neuropsychologist that did his testing said that when looking at the WIAT scores in comparison to the GAI, any difference of more than 15 points is most likely due to a learning disability. In fact, I think that is what the educational system uses to define a learning disability. In our state, the difference has to be 30 points in high school, but only 15 points in elementary school.

Is it possible that ADHD is the only thing getting in the way here? I'm not sure. Possibly? I ended up having someone from a local school for dyslexic children look over DS9's test results. She poured over all the details, looked at his written answers and ultimately made the dyslexia diagnosis. I was floored because he reads well above grade level. But once I started researching stealth dyslexia, it described him perfectly. I'm not trying to suggest that that is what is going on with your child, just suggesting that you make sure you get the answers you are looking for because I don't think it is "normal" to have such a discrepancy between WISC and WIAT.

I'm not familiar with the WIAT, so I can't help you with specific questions, but fwiw my ds12 has LDs and his scores jump around quite a bit on individual achievement tests (WJ-III) in spite of the fact that he performs extremely well at school. What helped me understand his achievement test results was to look at the specifics of what each subtest measures and how the test is administered - for example, on the WJ-III some subtests are administered by giving an oral prompt, some require reading etc. Some subtests are timed, some are not. Some subtests require a written response, some require an oral response. When I made a chart and grouped subtest score vs response type or prompt type etc, very clear patterns emerged that make sense with respect to his LD.

Just looking briefly at the scores you've posted, most of them seem really a-ok, with math computation possibly an area of weakness. I suspect that any test labelled "fluency" involves a timed component, and when you see a lower score in a timed test with a kid it's quite possible that the reason for the lower score is simply because the test is timed and has nothing to do with the child's mastery of the subject. There can be many reasons that any of the test scores are unexpectedly low, including the timed test. I'd suspect ADHD could make it difficult to finish a test in a given period of time; my ds doesn't have ADHD but the act of handwriting causes him to have a challenge with timed tests.

You should be able to get clarification from your tester - but in the meantime, it might also help to try to google around and find a list detailing what the specifics of each WIAT test are.

Best wishes,

polarbear