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    Lukemac #117400 12/01/11 09:21 PM
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    absolutely everyone has the right th their belief, even the non believers wink I don't expect kids to be quiet exactly, but I guess I wish parents would stress that everyone has different ideas about it, that's fine... My kids believe...I guess I wish other kids would just say "I don't believe" and not things like "Santa is your parents." Just like I don't argue with religious people...

    Butter told some friends last year that God was boring and they should go back to worshiping the Greek gods, who are more interesting...I DID tell her to not say things like that because I actually thought it was a little disrespectful/dismissive of her friend's beliefs...initially they were just curious why she didn't go to church with them...but I was worried that if their religious belief is literal (as mine was at that age) they would be anxious about not seeing her in heaven when they die...it caused quite the stir in the classroom...

    Also, she has never had a fear of the magical scary type things. Now she believes vampires are real, but Frankenstein is a made up story...either way, she's not afraid...I agree, if there is fear involved and your child is more of the kind, I guess some want to say logical...I want to say concrete, but I think that implies a lack of imagination, which I agree, is NOT a prerequisite to creativity or imagination...maybe literal is the word?

    I can't go back and see who had the bipolar sister...obviously that is completely dysfunctional and I would say not representative of my child's perceptions. That's really sad actually and I wonder if your mom might have had undiagnosed mental illness as well. There are still people who seek exorcisms for things like epilepsy...


    I get excited when the library lets me know my books are ready for pickup...
    Lukemac #117407 12/02/11 01:49 AM
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    Ohh the God discussions in school were really difficult. My kiddo was told she was going to go to hell and all the terrible things that were going to happen to her. She retaliated with a lot of logical reasonable answers but she was hurt. Her friends were really scared for her and it was a terrible time for a bit in the classroom. The Santa thing is so hard. I think respect has to be in every conversation, but kids are kids and are needing to learn how to do that...from both those who believe to those who don't. The kids I think get to battle it out between themselves if it is respectful. I have found some parents astonishingly disrespectful to my child's innocent respectful statements that I think their behavior only further confirmed my kiddos beliefs. I think bright children are often asked to be quiet. "let the other kids have an opportunity to answer..." or their answers are to complicated for the kind of question asked. I think there is a difference between a religious difference and the difference about something that ultimately will be discovered to not exist. If the kids get to spend time talking about Santa this and Santa that... a non-believing child should not have to be dishonest about their views. IMHO if my kiddo can influence a child not to believe then that child was ready not to believe. I am not advocating for my child or a non-believing child to go on a crusade to convert kids, but just equal space in the dialogue. I am also talking about kids that are around the same age and are interacting as peers.

    I love what Butter said about the Greek Gods. My kiddo went through a time that she would have said exactly the same thing. She really wanted to believe in the Greek Gods for a bit and Hogwarts and and and....

    2giftgirls #117408 12/02/11 01:50 AM
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    Originally Posted by 2giftgirls
    absolutely everyone has the right th their belief, even the non believers wink I don't expect kids to be quiet exactly, but I guess I wish parents would stress that everyone has different ideas about it, that's fine... My kids believe...I guess I wish other kids would just say "I don't believe" and not things like "Santa is your parents." Just like I don't argue with religious people...
    Well, this is a tricky area. What you have to understand is that what some of us believe is that truth is important. I don't go out looking for arguments with religious people, but if they ask, or if they make an assertion in front of me that I don't agree with, I'm going to say what I think and I'm not going to hedge it round with "but your views are equally valid" if I don't think that. In this case, there's really no doubt about the truth - "Santa" is your parents, and the kids who are being brought up to think otherwise are being lied to. Now, in our society, this kind of lie falls in the category of things that parents are legally permitted to do to their children. That doesn't mean, however, that other parents have to think it's OK, morally. There are many things that parents are permitted to do to their children that I personally think are morally wrong, and actually, this is one of them. This is why, while I have tried - for his sake and his friends' sakes - to make sure that DS is aware that other people's parents may have lied to them, and why, and that they might be upset if he told them the truth, I'm not willing to go further than that to accommodate those people.


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    flower #117420 12/02/11 07:36 AM
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    Originally Posted by flower
    Ohh the God discussions in school were really difficult. My kiddo was told she was going to go to hell and all the terrible things that were going to happen to her. She retaliated with a lot of logical reasonable answers but she was hurt. Her friends were really scared for her and it was a terrible time for a bit in the classroom.

    DD6 kept going round and round on this with the kid across the street, who goes to a Catholic school. I finally told DD that the two of them didn't really know anything on the subject except what they'd been told by their parents, so until she'd had time to learn more and make up her own mind, it's best to let it go for now. And I topped it off by telling her that my mom had told me something very different, and I'd later decided she was wrong... much, much later.

    Lukemac #117422 12/02/11 08:25 AM
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    We live in an extremely diverse area and DD has friends of literally every race and religion I can imagine. I have explained to her "Different people believe different things and that's ok. It doesn't mean one person is right and one person is wrong - just that they believe different things. When you get older you will decide what you believe in and that's fine too." This has come in handy over and over again - why does this friend's mother wear a hijab or that one's father wear a yarmulke, why are these 2 women married to each other, why does that friend wear a cross and talk so much about Jesus, etc. And yes, she most certainly understands that not everyone believes in Santa - and that is ok too. She doesn't try to change their beliefs and is being raised to respect the differences in people.

    On a similar vein to debunking Santa DD has become a "little sister" to one of the teams at DH's university and has grown up with the team mascot. A couple of years ago an older friend, probably 8 at the time, told her he was "just a guy in a costume." DD was sad at first but then started telling other little kids the same thing. I asked her not too - it was much more fun for them if they could just think of him as a big, friendly bobcat. She understood and never told another kid. I have to say the only time I ever really got offended was when a ballet teacher asked her to "kiss Jesus" when DD asked about the crucifix she was wearing. That was an adult disrespecting whatever our family may or may not believe in - not a child passing along "grown up information."

    ColinsMum #117429 12/02/11 09:22 AM
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    Originally Posted by ColinsMum
    Well, this is a tricky area. What you have to understand is that what some of us believe is that truth is important.

    Truth is also catastrophic (as in catastrophe theory).

    Just remember that you may "cause equilibria to appear or disappear, or to change from attracting to repelling and vice versa, leading to large and sudden changes of the behaviour of the system."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catastrophe_theory

    Lukemac #117461 12/02/11 06:02 PM
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    I am sure DS7 has been stringing me along for years. He always asks me if Santa will give him a particular item before writing to Santa. And this year he refuses to go see Santa.

    Oh, well. I tried.

    Lukemac #117526 12/04/11 03:42 PM
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    My kids still believe in Santa, though my just turned 6 year old is starting to question it. I still believe in Santa sort of. I believe along time ago there were several men who were kind enough to give out presents to kids for the holiday in thier country that is like Christmas. I also believe in the giving spirit of the holidays. But I try to let my kids know that even if we think someone is wrong that we should still be nice to them and not throw it in thier faces. Hopefully in the coming years they will show they have learned this. Being in a military family they are around different cultures all the time so that will help too I think.

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