Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Subject Accelerate or learn independently?

DS8 is in the 3rd grade GT class but is subjected accelerated in Math to the 4th grade GT class and so studies 5th grade math at this time. The problem is that the 5th grade math is not a challenge at all and he has even commented that it is easy.

He was just accelerated in 2nd grade to the 3rd grade GT math class and it involved a couple of testing steps by the school and then by the district. He basically had to be 2-3 grades ahead (per high scores on year-end type achievement tests) and passed the district logic/problem-solving/explanation type assessment for the acceleration to be approved by the district.

I have no doubt that he can do the 6th grade math with the 5th grade GT math class. However, I am hesitant to rock the boat again so soon and accelerating now would mean that he would have to work alone in both 4th and 5th grade for math. He already asked me last year what would happen to him in 5th grade.

The other issue is that I am not sure that DS8 is that great in math as his strength is really verbal. He can manipulate multi-step algebraic equations to sovle for a variable, but is absolutely not visual-spatial. However, reading/language arts is not a problem since the requisite skills involved formal literary analysis and open-ended essay writing so it really doesn't matter whether his reading level is years ahead.

The other thought is to provide math at home, but DS8 is not really the acadmeic type although he reads quite a bit. Even though he was able to test "at least 2-3 years ahead" in math per the offical requirements, I have never provided formal curiculum at home. I think he was able to pass because he drew logical conclusions from what he already knew, plus he probably rememebered information from the times when he asked open-ended questions (out of the blue).

If we were to supplement at home, I don't know how we would do it. He doesn't like to be taught - is very impatient if you try to explain anything and won't even listen unless he can't figure it out by himself. His life is devoted to his laptop and nintendo dsi so we would have to tear him away from that to do any formal teaching/learning.

Any thoughts?

Perfect candidate for Aleks.com. Check it out.

I guess I am just echoing Sweetie - but I will elaborate.

ALEKS is an online math tutor, basically. For a minimal fee, you can sign your child up for ALEKS. For example, there is a short free trial you can sign up for.

ALEKS starts by doing an assessment to see what your child needs to master at a given grade level. After the assessment, the child works through the problem types that ALEKS sees as a need. I think three correct answers means that you move on to the next problem type. Can't remember for sure - but it is something minimal like that. So, no repetitive practicing like they get in school.

My DS is PG and we started him out at 3rd grade ALEKS when he was 6. Took him 2 weeks to master the topics that he hadn't already mastered. Fourth grade took about a month. By fifth grade, we started getting into topics that they don't actually do at school, but which are theoretically within the grasp of a fifth grader. (I guess my point is, start your child at where their school grade and move up from there. No sense in requiring a 100% assessment though. 95% is enough to justify moving to the next grade of material.)

As my son got older, the need for supplemental work lessened as he learned how to challenge himself through other means. He got half way through algebra I before we gave up ALEKS in favor of an online chess tutor and eventually no supplements at all.

My daughter didn't like ALEKS as well as my son did. Sometimes we found that she did better with a parent teaching a tough topic than with the computer. So, we had to interact more with her.

If you do want to supplement at home, I suggest looking into the Art of Problem Solving books. I bought the Algebra book on that and my son worked through some of that. THe deal here is less on quantity of material Like aleks, but more on just a few really hard problems. -- which is another fun type of challenge for the right kid.

The really weird thing is that my son is 12 now. He only skipped the one grade and is taking Alegra I at school. He could probably have passed the final for Alegra I on day one - but he is still learning from taking the course.

Anyway - I guess my point is, I like supplementing at home versus pushing too fast at school. Push as fast as you have to - don't get me wrong. But do explore the options of ALEKS and other online programs. If they work, they might give you more options to choose from.

ALEKS worked for us and I am so glad we did ALEKS.

I wouldn't assume he's not "great at math" just yet - much of what is challenging and fun about math comes once you get to Algebra and beyond. And you also don't have to be visual-spatial to be great at math - I don't have one visual-spatial brain cell in my head, but I love math and have a degree in it

We're another family that used Aleks successfully to subject accelerate at home during elementary. One of the things I *really* like about Aleks is that you can create your own assessments and that everything can be easily tied back to state standards for reports - that made it easy for us to document our ds' achievements in a way that when he had an opportunity to accelerate in middle school there was no question he had mastered the work he'd done at home.

The flip side to the math is, he's already accelerated at school. He says the math is easy, but is he complaining about it being easy? If he's happy with the math he's doing at school I'd be tempted to leave that as is, and focus on giving him opportunities to learn about things he's interested in at home that he's not exposed to at school. My ds is watching a bunch of online college level chemistry course videos right now because this month he's really interested in chemistry. I couldn't find any way to have him take chemistry yet for credit online, but maybe he'll be able to use what he's learned to test out of first year chemistry in high school - or maybe not. Whichever happens, he's having fun with the videos at the moment, and that's enough for us for right now.

polarbear

polarbear, you can probably get credit for ALEKS chemistry. They have a procedure to provide a transcript for it.

Mayreeh - did you find your son getting frustrated when things were at a slower pace at school? My DS7 is PG as well and is currently grade skipped one grade (in 3rd) and goes to 5th grade for math. But 5th grade is way too easy as well. They let him do a computer program that goes up to 8th grade every morning for about 20 minutes and he is almost done with that program so not sure what they are going to do next. He doesn't complain about the pace, because he isn't really a complainer about academics and enjoys the social piece and everything else. But I just wonder how he is handling the slow pace of it all and all the repetition.

See if the school could subscribe him to Aleks.com for him (goes much higher than 8th grade) and it tests him and places him correctly. There is also the Khan academy for additional work (but you have to do more problems to "master" a skill on that one...but they also have videos to explain topics and not just written words).

If I was still homeschooling my son would have Aleks, a traditional grade level text book as a reference book, and Khan Academy to use for additional help, with a once a week problem solving "class" from me.

Thanks for all the responses. For now, I am leaving the school piece alone as he is not exactly complaining but more commenting with surprise that it is so easy.

He tried Kahn Academy and kind of likes it, although perhaps I should intervene so that he is making some kind of logical progression - the other day, he mentioned picking some trigonometry video, which he found interesting but knew that he was missing some knowledge to fully grasp it.

I signed up for the free Aleks.com trial, but it was limited to three hours and only allowed one assessment so it was difficult for me to gauge whether DS8 would like it. I also didn't know which assessment to pick so I went with the middle school-6th grade one. He only got about 65% correct so maybe I should have tested him on the 5th grade one. Anyhow, I think I would need to actually purchase it for the month to see whether it would be a good fit. Then again, I am also thinking EPGY or CTY since those programs are tailored for advance kids.

Polarbear - That is interesting to me that you are not visual-spatial but still love math and have a degree in it. I don't remember where I read the strong correclation between visual-spatial and math ability. Also, it is that I am biased because I am very visual-spatial and tied my own math abilities to that particular quality. Then again, after getting my math degree, I haven't use it in the last two decades.

Khan Academy has a knowledge map of math subjects that lights them up one by one as you show mastery of the earlier topics. Each topic ties to the correct video lecture(s). You can still bypass and go directly to a later subject.
Go to the Practice tab or http://www.khanacademy.org/exercisedashboard?k
Your child will need a login, meaning a Facebook/Google account (the legality of which, especially for children under 13, still being iffy).

Nice interface, love the integration with the lectures, but (I have been playing with it rather extensively from the bottom up) and proving mastery is rather tedious. Frankly having to do 10+ long divisions by hand is mind numbing (and one careless mistake sets you back a lot).

I find proving mastery in Aleks (from watching my son play) much better -- you only have to get 4 items correct on the first try, 2-3 more if you make a mistake, and there will be one review with mastery proven in one correct attempt. The system also remembers when you "nearly" got there and will qualify you on way less than 3-4 attempts when you try it again. This has proven crucial for my son, whose performance tends to spiral down fast when he starts making careless mistakes.

You can get a 2 months free trial of Aleks here: http://www.aleks.com/webform/c215
takes a few days to get activated, and you will loose anything your child did on the first trial (I couldn't figure how to do the longer trial without creating a new account), but hey, two months!

Aleks recommends that you start at your current grade level and then move up (of down) if your initial assessed results fall outside of the 25-85% range. If he rated a 65% your son will be fine at 5th grade (will probably finish it quickly, and then you can move him up).

Here is the reason why (because yes, I am that kind of anal, Excel spreadsheet available for those who share my issues ;)):

3rd grade math has 127 topics.
4th grade math has 196 topics. 125 from 3rd grade, 71 new.
5th grade math has 266 topics. 196(!) from 4th grade, 70 new.
6th grade math has 324 topics. 266(!) from 5th grade, 58 new.
(I am still trying to figure out why MS1 is 95% repeated material rather than "only" 82% for 6th grade)
Lots of review/repetition built in, Aleks was designed for students operating at both ends of the curve - several grade levels above/below the norm.

When you move from one course to the other your child's mastered topics are supposed to move with him (per support -- we are not there yet). So after mastering 5th grade you should start 6th grade with a pie about 80% full.

Now if only Aleks could provide comprehensive (the existing is rather skimpy and too much based on the current problem), multi format (text/video) explanations it would be perfect.

BTW, why does Aleks, even with the repetition, only has 8 math courses to cover 3rd-12th grade? Or is it just that their Algebra 2 + trig + geometry actually covers several grade levels?

I also don't see where integration/derivation is taught?

Still trying to understand the differences between the US education system and the one I grew up in... Can't believe that regrouping in substractions is noted differently here -- my son is going to suffer when he gets to this stuff in school, we have taught him all wrong