Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Age or Ability Specific Forums Pre-school Talking to nannies

After some troubles getting a preschool space in time, we have hired a part-time nanny for three to five weeks a couple of days a week, until the new baby is born and DH goes on pat. leave.

I can't get her to talk to DS. She cuts him off, won't give him time to finish answering (she very clearly thinks she's helping, and that he's babbling). I think her English may be less developed than his, it's not her first language, and I think, for eg, that when he said "locomotive" as a way of clarifying his earlier "engine," she actually did not know the word. Since he actually said "lomoCOtife" it really did sound like babble if you don't recognize the word. Not hearing engine was just not expecting it, I think. Anyway, she tried to make it very easy for him to talk about the "choo-choo." Then he made up a song about trains, and she got a bit stressed because she didn't know it. Arg. Well, yeah, he made it up (it was transparent, becasue it was to the tune of london bridge & re-used a big chunk of the original lyrics).

He brought her a book on trains (albeit a book DH later pointed out is probably aimed at 8-10 yr olds), and asked her to read it. No matter how many times he asked her to read it, to read specific sections, etc, she just kept turning the pages really fast, and simplifying down to 3 word sentances. She finally managed to read the name of one of the very early Canadian railroads, and he got all excited, giggling and wiggling and she decided that meant he was done with the book. She's clearly a reader, but again, I'm not sure her English is actually up to fluent reading of books he's interested in. He brought her a book on hockey today, and although she was very enthusiastic, she wouldn't read it, just kept quizzing him on what was in the pictures (cat, hockey stick, goalie, etc). She clearly loves hockey (her husband plays in a provincial league, apparently), she just wasn't getting it that he WANTED HER TO READ THE BOOK.

She caused a bit of a tantrum today becasue she was trying to make him put on his sweater to go outside. He wanted to finish drawing a copy of the map I made her showing the local park, subway, and family resource center. He couldn't make himself understood (partly because when I helped him, he declaired that those weren't roads, they were rails, and now I needed to draw a train on them, but anyway). I had trouble getting either of them to understand what was going on becasue she was trying to assure me that he'd be ok once they were outside, and I was trying to understand his "babble," and address his concerns over her reassurances. She just didn't know he was talking.

She's also having trouble realizing he can feed himself with a knife and fork, and that he can mostly dress himself ("except he needs help with the shoes and socks" I told her). When I tell her, I think she doesn't believe me, and becasue she just orders him around rather than giving him real sentances "put your sweater on" rather than "when we get outside, you'll be cold, so I think you should put on a sweater," he digs in his heals, which makes it look like he doesn't understand. TOTALLY looks like he doesn't understand. If I didn't know him, I might have made all the same mistakes. He doesn't really have a lot of tools for punching though, since he doesn't like to perform, and his articulation is poor. I suggested he show her what he can do, and to ask her for things ("enunciate!" I said... and he did, to ME...)

We don't need to make this work for long, but we need to make it work. The agency offered to try to find us someone with better english and more interest in reading to him, so we could go that route. But DH pointed out that a nanny agency that does 0-5 yr olds might not have a good read on who can read 8-10yr old nonfiction fluently, they may have people with English as a first language, but almost certainly not our dialect of English. I don't want to be changing people up a whole lot when it's only a few weeks, especially since this woman seems actually to be very good (appart from expecting him to behave like a 2 yr old) and I'm not convinced we'll get anyone better in the end.

I'm torn between trying at least one other person from the agency, or just trying to explain better to this one. If we do try a second person, then I think I may need some serious advice on how to explain DS to that person so we don't get into this mess again.

Been there done that advice especially appreciated, but I'll try whatever suggestions I can get!

-Mich

I would suggest sitting down with her, ask her how she feels and what she thinks how things are going and tell her your concerns, give above mentioned examples. Also if you decide to try out somebody else, give clear expectation. For example, that you expect her to read the books your ds selects, even if they may appear not age appropriate. On the other, you really need to find somebody that would allow you to relax, otherwise this will not work.

I'd ask for a nanny for a 7-8 year old or find a college student that wants to work part time.

It sounds to me like there might be more than one possible explanation here. It may be that her English reading isn't up for the challenge, but it also may be that she has a preconceived notion of him as far as age, abilities, and needs, which she's clinging to fairly stubbornly, and is only being reinforced when he doesn't communicate with her effectively.

If it's the latter, there may be an opportunity there through communication to resolve this. But you need to be very clear, because it sounds like maybe you've been trying to say this delicately, and she's ignoring that approach. So say something like, "There needs to be a new approach here, because there are some issues between you two that need to be worked out."

Then establish some rules, like:

- Don't give orders without explaining WHY they're being given.
- If he brings you a book, he needs you to READ the book to him.

etc.

Of course, this is coming from someone who wouldn't even let his MOM babysit his toddler without first extracting a promise she'd do everything just like we did... because at that age, consistency is terribly important.

Mph. re: Dude -- I think it's both. She did eventually read out a passage from one book, and it was clear that she had the basics, but her accent was stronger reading than speaking, and she stumbled on pronounciation of a lot of the less common words with awkward spellings. It also sounded like she was scanning ahead, but running into problems with that. So I think she didn't get it why she should move out of her comfort zone when "he couldn't really want that anyway." (she didn't say that, I'm just guessing about her thinking)

Austin: The difficulty is that we're swamped as it is, and that's a tall order. We were trying for that, but ran out of time when I got really sick for a week, and needed someone quick.

Ok, re: Dude again: I don't think she quite understands ME when I say "explain why," or "read." I think she thinks she _is_ explaining why/reading in the context of a 2 yr old. When I asked him to do up his zipper (using his name), she took it as an instruction to HER. When I asked her to give him 10 min and 5 min warnings about a change in activities, she did, but the times were nonsensicle, the five minute warning was 10, and the 4 min warning was, literally, about 30 seconds. I'm pretty sure she saw the distinction between her "We're going soon" and my "It will take me 10 mins" as being a the-words-he's-used-to thing, and not an actual more-information thing. She has the kind of confidence that makes people good with little kids. But it also seems to make it hard for her to "Get" stuff that she doesn't expect.

MagnaSky: Yeah, you're right, this won't work unless it actually, like, works. Ugh. Ok. I needed that to be said. I'll try talking to her this aft, and see how it goes from there.

Maybe it's just a bad fit and we really should try someone else next week. Maybe I can write out the ground-rules, and then when they come I'll have a script for myself to begin with. I'm feeling a little better now, so maybe also I'll be more on the ball this time. Blarg. I kinda knew this would happen. All the babysitters who can actually handle him either have PhDs and an unusual degree of respect for other people's opinions or are that one girl from the giftie HS I've been trying to convince myself it's just 'cause those are who our friends are, but... I actually have seen this happen before. A lot.


Preschool would be better. Arg. Gah.

FRUSTRATED.

-Mich.
PS: thanks for the quick responses, that's exactly what _I_ needed this morn . More advice always appreciated.

Kcab: I think she's getting nervous when she has trouble handling his bahavior. He gets to be a bear when he's not feeling like he's being taken seriously. So. Yeah. That.

Ok. You guys are kinda telling me what I already know. Which suggests that maybe I just need to be a bit more assertive and not second guess myself.

I'll try talking to her one more time, and maybe also try someone else for Tuesday, and at least compair the two.

Ugh.

-Mich

just my 2 cents, but since you mention that English isn't her first language, you could also be dealing with some cultural ideals of what is appropriate for a child of this age. I agree, you need to make it clear what you expect her to do FOR your son, not TO your son.

FWIW-I also really feel for him with the communication/babbling. I seem to have a knack for deciphering early speaking and have been able to clearly understand DD4.5 since she was only about 20 months. With DD8, starting around 10 mo, she would push things away (like a spoon when she was finished eating) and say what sounded like "monkey shoes". She was well past two when her ability to make her mouth move properly caught up and we realized she had been saying "no thank you" all that time.
DD4.5 has totally been dressing herself since around 2 and I do the same thing, always talking to my chldren, giving the explanations before they can ask, I guess, so they are used to having things said before they even get frustrated.

If English isn't her native language, it's possible that she just can't understand what he's saying. People outside a little kid's immediate circle usually have trouble understanding what the child is saying. In fact, speaking clearly enough that a stranger can understand is usually listed as a developmental milestone.

It can be very hard for a non-native speaker to understand non-clear diction as it is, so adding normal kiddie ways of speaking (e.g. lomoCOtife) could just make it next to impossible for her to understand (not her fault; it would probably be the same for you listening to a very young child speaking a language that was only semi-familiar to you).

Based on my experiences with my non-native-English-speaker MIL, and my non-articulating niece, I suspect both of these.

My niece is now 7, and I still have a hard time figuring out her non sequiturs. If I've been around her for a week, I can mostly follow a normal conversation.

2giftgirls: yeah, his language is way ahead and his articulation is behind, so the combo is genuinely difficult, even for people who know him pretty well. Even for me. People who know him well compensate by asking follow-up questions, guessing and testing their guesses, and just saying a lot to him. In full sentences.

Val: Yup. I'm quite sure she just can't understand him much of the time. But EFL isn't very available in nannies around here. I've never met one. So this is something we're going to HAVE to deal with.

Ug.

Anyway, They're back, and he's asleep. This is my chance...

-Mich.