Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Figuring out test results

OH, and Simon Baron-Cohen (cousin of the brilliant, British comedian) talks of autism as being a case of "extreme male brain". One aspect of autism, systemetizing, is also associated with giftedness and iNtuition on the Myers-Briggs personality profile. We often find that men and women who are good at math and sciences are in the same family with autistic people, so there is probably a genetic link.

I would be careful of associating the entire autism spectrum with relative strengths in math/science abilities. This is much more applicable to "classic" autism where there may be significant language impairment. This link might be illuminating. Most people with Asperger's have language as a relative strength and would meet the criteria for NVLD, with VCI significantly higher than PRI.

Welcome SiaSL -
Glad to see you've pulled up a comfy chair - If you got 2 skips and still didn't get enough challenge to reverse your underachievement, you are indeed quite an outlier in the world of gifted. I would definitely keep one eye on the idea that your DS is just as gifted as you are, and struggling under an even larger challenge. It may be that his behavior is really really good considering the amount of stress and challenge he is under. Scary thought.

Processing speed is a quite useful thing to know, mostly because in school 'smart=fast' but in real life, many smart folks are average or below average processing speeds. This makes 'boring tasks' all the more difficult to focus on.
Executive Functions, such as (the ability to do what is asked even if it's boring, the ability to judge if the context is right for a lecture, the ability calm or excite oneself enough to do the job at hand, awareness of time, the ability to think about future outcomes and get enough worked up about it to take precautions, are thought by many to be the key deficit in ADHD (hyperactive and inattentive)
These deficits also seem to be part and parcel with ASD.

Having slow processing speed mean that it takes even more work to use what little one has at the right time.

see
Early elementary years are filled with repetitive tasks and demands to switch topics often, with very little advanced detail or call to use abstract thought, yes? This can be very hard on a gifted (or unusually gifted kid if he's like Mama) with slow processing speed.

As far as masculinity/femininity goes, it may be your own Spectrum issues, but outlier-giftedness alone usually brings less of a fit into traditional male or female roles. Some conceive of Gifted folks being more flexible and 'in the middle' but I see it as many Gifties being both more feminine and more masculine than is traditionally expected, just as we are more intense in so many areas of life.

I also want to point out the special challenge of an Extroverted kid who is low on social skills who is housed with agemates who can't intuit how his mind is moving. When you say that your child is lecturing the other moms, I see a kid who really wants social attention. ADHD or ASD kids who are extroverted both have the 'champagne taste;beer budget' problem in the social realm. Be glad that he even wants social attention - even if it leads to those awful phone calls from school.

Lots to chew on - that's why the chairs need to be so comfy!

Smiles,
Grinity

Hmmmm... I wouldn't have labeled myself as unusually gifted, especially after reading through these forums. If only because I haven't ever been very creative, and the social context was different.

I grew up in a country where parents try to "greenshirt" their kids -- push the ones born a few months after the cut-off forward a year, rather than what seems the commonly accepted red-shirting in the US. My first grade skip went, she was born one month after the cut-off, she is potty trained (we are talking preschool here), she can talk clearly, the classrooms are not full, she is in. The next decision point was the move into elementary school/first grade, where it was pretty much: big for her age, well integrated with older peers, formal testing show no red flags, if parents agree she won't be asked to repeat K. Nothing exceptional there, there was always at least one other child in my classroom which had skipped one grade (so, about 8%?).

Once I learned to read (1st grade, no earlier) I spent days with my nose in a book and became the typical teacher's pet. My 4th grade teacher was the one who arranged me skipping 5th -- she couldn't take me being an all A student without putting in one ounce of work at school. That was more unusual, true. Moving to 6th grade at 9 killed my social life, but looking back I think it would have died anyway -- I used to run with the boys and the shift through puberty and the changing social scene was... difficult.

I kept coasting as a B+ student, never learned how to really apply myself or organize my work, until I found myself in a very competitive science program after high school where all of a sudden I wasn't the youngest student anymore (3rd youngest out of 48), I could still intuit answers to math problems but wasn't able to intuit the proofs anymore, and the sheer amount and complexity of the stuff we had to learn didn't lend itself to the "listen once, remember long enough for the next test" technique. Ended up graduating from a solid, bottom-top-tier program with not much more than good enough grades.

So I'd say solidly MG, right? I wish I could get my hands on those test results from 4th grade, just to know. Though I had to laugh when reading some of the testing threads -- I still remember driving the evaluator wild on what was probably the first Similarities question: plum and apricot. I spent 5 increasingly desperate minutes going though answers like "they are both from the genus prunus? both have flowers with five petals and sepals?..." while thinking "oh my, this is really hard, I am going to flunk the test"... and she finally broke down and told me the answer was fruits (probably thinking "FRUITS! What's wrong with you???" ). And then sitting back in my chair thinking "well, that was dumb!" rather scornfully.


Getting back to my son, yes, you are right, he is/was starved for social interactions, but I have been having a hard time helping him with that. It doesn't help that he is attracted to the outgoing sports-loving kids (a crowd he doesn't fit into at all, and not for lack of trying). I am not sure if this is because his best pre-K buddy was that type (they had been friends since they were both 6 months old in the infant room at daycare) and he is looking for that same friend/friendship, or if he likes the type. Although looking back that kid (highly verbal, highly social) probably smoothed over many social situations for him at preschool. Last year he bonded with one of the other misfits in his class, a girl who loved animals and playing in the dirt as much as he did, but they are separated this year.

First meeting of the social skills playgroup (which comes with group "talk" -- mix of education and group therapy, I guess -- for parents). The program was strongly recommended by the private evaluator we saw, who came highly recommended by local parents of ASD kids. So my hopes are high.

It's possible that you are MG, but this isn't convincing me. What percent of that 8% got skipped again? Or even As without an ounce of effort.

But I think your story is more important that it shows that while a skip might be necessary to reversing underachievement, it's isn't always sufficient. I think the 4th grade teacher was on the right track, but that you would have needed an adult to really look at the world through your eyes and see what skills were missing and what motivations would be strong enough to help you move into that uncomfortable territory. We were kind of lucky in that my son's 'social drive' provided motivation for him to get As in any classroom so he could take what was - in his mind - his rightful place in the social rank.

I hope the program is helpful, and I would encourage you to seek out chances for him to interact with other gifted kids. I used to joke that the more concerned I was with my son's social well being, the farther I would drive to events.

Keep us posted! Your Comfy chair is here.
Grinity

I did not have time to re-read your entire thread, I read it earlier, but with my ave to low WM I don't remember everything in it. So I don't remember what type of school your ds is at, but if he has a rx of AS, is it possible to ask the school for your ds to be in the same class with his only friend who he clicked with (From your post: Last year he bonded with one of the other misfits in his class, a girl who loved animals and playing in the dirt as much as he did, but they are separated this year). A friend can be best therapy for him? If not maybe playdates with her.

Grinity, yes, my experience with grade skips was... not entirely negative (I think I would have hit the wall on social issues in middle school anyway, with the combination of playing mostly with boys and with that brand of shyness that comes across as being aloof), but not entirely positive either: it didn't do what it was supposed to do for me re. interesting work. And the WM/executive functioning issues in my son were there aplenty for me too.

Eh, my parents did the best they could in that time and place. Which doesn't mean I don't want to try and do better for my own kids, starting with the problem child, of course. On the plus side my husband is the driven, type A, borderline OCD type, so if I manage to channel his energies right (not working quite right for now) my son will be set for success (his father is the one who finally got him reading last year -- me I was all "isn't he supposed to pick it up on his own? what do you mean kids need to WORK on their reading skills??").

Re. social issues (and I probably need to move this to the 2E forum), public school, too late to change classroom assignments, and the school already worked hard to make sure that kids with issues that interact explosively with each other (with my son as a star member of that particular pack) were separated. I will work on playdates -- I organized many last year with that girl, but am still a bit bummed that the other mom didn't take the initiative on anything. I started wondering if she thought my child was a bad influence on her daughter ??? But I'll keep it in mind for next year.

I also need to ask teachers (not only his, but everybody who gets a chance to observe him on the playground) how many of his reports on new friends/kids he doesn't like are grounded in reality and how many stem from his lack of understanding of social cues. He has been labeled at risk for both bullying and being bullied. For the latter the therapist who leads the new (and very instructive group) said that AS kids tend to be attracted to bullies, who are often putting an act in their interactions with their targets and so provide very clear, exaggerated social cues. That was eye opening. For the latter... He seems to be slooooooowly getting a better grip on his temper, and his physical awkwardness (always bumping into things and people) seems to be slooooooowly improving too.