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    Joined: Jul 2011
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    When I first started to give the WIAT, I prepared my reports and discussed my results in collaboration with a school psychologist, so this random score-inputter lady may not be random at all!

    Sadly, most of the time that public schools give the WISC and WIAT, they are looking for a Specific Learning Disability and a possible Special Education eligibility. Most students have some kind of pattern of strengths and weaknesses, but a 1.5 standard deviation gap (significant difference) between cognitive and achievement in a specific area often indicates a learning disability. We can't make a decision on SpEd based on that one difference, though. If we did see that kind of difference in the results, we would know that we needed to ask the question, "Does this student have a learning disability?"

    The answer in that situation (as far as the law is concerned) comes after the whole team has examined the evidence, the experts (including the parents) have had their say, and questions have been asked and answered. In most cases, the team reaches a consensus. If the team does not agree, there are many possible next steps.

    Sadly, pathetically, I have never been involved in a meeting where these scores were used to determine if someone is gifted. I have some students in my classes that have been sort of informally identified as gifted, but none of them have actually been assessed as far as I know.

    {sigh}

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    Cecilia Offline OP
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    Thanks for your input Beckee smile I just really want to be prepared for the "team meeting" and not be blindsided by a potential LD whole discussion. I don't want them to get distracted from our original goal (before this achievement test) which is to subject accelerate in his strenghs. Like I said before, he has had the SB5 and WISC which shows him gifted, plus the EXPLORE....I'm just so concerned that his low scores in pseudoword decoding, spelling, and math fluency (addition) are going to throw the "team" off and start talking about him as potentially learning disabled (not saying that he can't be both gifted and LD...)and we don't get to the real point that the poor kid is going crazy from boredom. On the WIAT-III, I believe he reached the ceiling on reading comprehension at >12.9 grade equiv? Yes? Any advice on keeping everybody on the original goal?

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    Originally Posted by Cecilia
    Thanks for your input Beckee smile I just really want to be prepared for the "team meeting" and not be blindsided by a potential LD whole discussion. I don't want them to get distracted from our original goal (before this achievement test) which is to subject accelerate in his strenghs. ... Any advice on keeping everybody on the original goal?


    Use the "broken record" technique. Just keep repeating your position every time they start going off topic listen for a while but bring the discussion back around like a scratched record.


    ...reading is pleasure, not just something teachers make you do in school.~B. Cleary
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    If I were you, I would ask your kid about the part of the test where he had to read a bunch of allegedly-nonexistent words ("nad" used to throw me in the old list, as it is slang for gonad).

    You'll want to have some clue about what was going through his mind while you're sitting in that meeting. Nobody qualifies for Special Education because they can't spell. And few children have any trouble with spelling in a language that is regularly spelled (Spanish, for instance).

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    In my experience you may have to battle the "I understand his potential is X,Y,Z (based on SB5 and WISC) but his achievement is showing A,B,C (WIAT)" type of conversation. Prepare yourself for the arguement of potential versus ability. The broken record technique is helpful with that. If you look at his processing and working memory scores you will get an idea if they are going to bring up concerns with keeping up with in class material and homework based on those scores, but in all reality they probably still fall into the "average" range and shouldn't really impact anything. Gasp, a child can be GT and test "average". smile If those scores are below average and in any way impact your son's performance in day to day class then you could ask for accomodations.



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    I am late to the discussion, but agree with those that have pointed to the possibility of a reading and writing disability. His score on the psuedo word decoding and spelling both indicate that he is not proficient with the sound symbol relationship, word patterns and phonics. Thus, he may have tremendous difficulty with the lower level skills of reading: decoding (getting the words off the page). No surprisingly, his comprehension is higher, but it is most likely compromised by inefficiencies with word reading and fluency.

    His math skills also indicate a potential difficulty with lower levels of reading. It is very very common for people with dyslexia to have difficulty with rote facts such as math computation. At the same time, they can be brilliant and exceptionally gifted in math problem solving and math applications.

    These issues run parallel to scores in the cognitive realm - you mention that his VCI and PRI scores are off the charts, yet his working memory and processing are much lower in comparison. It is the later that can cause bottle necks in reading/decoding/fluency and in math computation. The former goes to his higher level abstract reasoning skills that play into good comprehension and math problem solving.

    I would want to dig deeper on the issue of the dyslexia and would request further reading/literacy testing. Your son could be 2-E - someone that would benefit from remedial reading instruction so that his decoding can improve to the level of his thinking. Most often, diagnosticians would use some or all of these tests: CTOPP, GORT, WRMT, TOWRE, TOWL and others. In addition to remediation, he would most likely benefit from extra time, computer with spell check for writing, calculator for math, audio books/ electronic reader for all written material.

    These issues are separate from his ability to access high level science and social studies. However, if he cannot access and take meaning from written material because he is inefficient at the word reading level and at written output, it will be difficult for him to learn in a traditional classroom without accommodations. So much of the material is taught via the written word and assessed via writing, that if he indeed has struggles in this area, he may not be able to convey his understanding and knowledge and teachers will underestimate him.

    These links may help:
    http://www.interdys.org/
    http://www.ldonline.org/article/Assistive_Technology_Tools%3A_Reading
    http://concordspedpac.org/Whichtest.htm

    Best of luck - you clearly have a very bright child. I think you have to issues to consider:
    1. Does my child have an LD that needs to be addressed with instruction, accommodations or both?
    2. Is acceleration appropriate?

    These are not mutually exclusive. If you say yes to #1, this does not preclude #2. But if your child does have a LD, I urge you to address it so that it does not cause a bottle neck in future years.

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    Cecilia Offline OP
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    Hello to all and thank you again for taking the time to reply! mich, you mentioned a few things that I'm just not sure about..."Access and take meaning from written material" I understand that this means reading comprehension and being able to read and then write down what he has read??? On the WIAT he reached the ceiling on reading comp and on the EXPLORE as a 5th grader, he scored 85% better than 8th graders in reading and science. He is able to read or listen to something and write beautiful essays with full comprehension. When he was stuck in his 5th grade class with reading, he would always score 100% in comprehension. Someone had mentioned earlier "difficulty in reading shorter passages, directions..." I see no problem with that. One thing he cannot do when he's writing, is spell everything correctly but it's not a complete disaster. You can certainly figure it out and his handwriting is gorgeous. If his comprehension is so high, why would he meed audio books or an electronic reader for all written material? He reads high-level (with comprehension)for pleasure constantly. With the pseudoword decoding....He reads so much that I'm sure he has just memorized the words. In the younger years, I remember him scoring always high in phonics. I don't understand going into remeidal reading to learn how to deocde nonsense words. I guess I just don't understand the sense in remeidal reading when he can already "see" and understand the meaning of higher level words. With his ENFP personality, I think he would literally go bonkers if he had to go backward in remedial reading when he is so used to reading and comprehending college-level books. I am clearly not an expert here, so am I missing something? Please help me understand smile You did mention a computer with spell check...Now that would be fabulous since his spelling is below average. His depth of thinking is incredible but certainly does not match his spelling or sentence structure. Is that common to request a personal laptop computer in the classroom for written activities? Wow if so, I would be all over that!!! Since he scored below average in spelling, would that be reasonable to ask for that? I just want to be sure that this meeting is focused on his acceleration not on him being potentially LD, dyslexic, or whatever. To me that's a seperate topic to be discussed at a later time. What he needs now, is acceleration to match his level of thinking and to keep his love of learning fueling smile

    Last edited by Cecilia; 08/18/11 06:37 AM.
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    I think some of the remediating mentioned is more like what we did with my DD. She had extremely high comprehension and very poor spelling. We went back and did a phonetic approach to spelling, with gives you the phonograms and the rules that apply, then moved to root word, prefix and suffix meaning. Often spelling is approached as a list of words to memorize and as one gets older if they don't have those rules it becomes more difficult to spell and decode, especially unknown words without context.

    All of the scores you mentioned can also be impacted by processing and working memory issues, so it may be as simple as that. You just need to keep coming back to your last phrase or two, "acceleration to match his level of thinking". Only you know if the possible bottlenecks indicated by his scores could hinder an acceleration, but that might be the basis of concern you are hearing from others.



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    Cecilia Offline OP
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    Hi melmichigan...Sorry for all the questions smile Did you or the school recognize/provide the phonetic approach? How long before you saw progress and was it significant? Was she given any accommodations in the classroom? Was she accelerated in her reading comprehension? Interesting. I like the phonetic approach, especially if we can do it at home. I never realized his spelling was so "horrific" ... He always brought home 100% on spelling tests and never had too much of a problem memorizing spelling lists. When he was younger, the school never mentioned difficulties in phonics...In fact, he always scored very high on phonics tests, worksheets etc... Weird. P.S. His father is a HORRIBLE speller LOL

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    Cecilia Offline OP
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    Hello to all! Yayyyyy!!! An update...The meeting that I was so dreading went great! The WIAT-III test interpreter was there and she was absolutely fantastic. She only briefly mentioned the low spelling and decoding but firmly stated that in no way should that prohibit DS from accelerating. I could go on and on but won't haha...The whole team had no hesitation agreeing that DS should be accelerated in science and social studies...Everyone signed the papers! They were all so supportive that I just couldn't believe it. My husband and I stumbled out of there just numb. Thank you again for all of your support! All of the tears, worry, frustration, and advocacy was/is worth it. There IS hope for all of our amazing kids and I will continue to cross my fingers for each of them smile

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