Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy dual immersion downer

DS8 is in dual and therefore cannot, I repeat cannot be subject accelerated math. I was also told that this year, the 3rd & 4th grade maths don't coinside, so even if he moved up, he's miss something else in 3rd, and then have to sit through 3rd math anyway.

I was told through differentiation he would receive some 4th grade math work and through the G&T, he'll get more challenging work.

The coordinator said, as a parent, the system wouldn't be able to offer advanced math past a certain point, and that it's better to have a well rounded curriculum now with the bilingual component than just accelerated math and no bilingual b/c eventually the system can't offer anything past calculus.

Fair enough - and I do agree on the bilingual.

What I am most worried about is losing his enthusiasm to learn, esp. math. I can HS one morning a week and watch his homework this year to be sure he's being challenged - and he won't miss much during that one morning (maybe announcements and 15 min. of class).

I think about athletes though. I was a "gifted" swimmer and it seems like the analogy would be, "well, don't swim so much b/c we want you to be a well rounded athlete."

OK... but I have a gift... which led me to being nationally ranked in the top 15 - I couldn't acheive that in other sports and it would be silly to think I could.

Bringing it back to DS8 math...

I think it's criminal to not fire that spark when he's doing math at the 4th & sometimes 5th grade level... rarely do I see this intensity and satisfaction. It is amazing to see.

I've gone on... welcome all thoughts, although it might be unclear that I'm seeking wisdom on continued HS & advancement, I guess?!

Hi,

I don't have experience with dual immersion, but if you like everything else about the program and math is the only issue, I would recommend the part-time HS and/or afterschooling in math. If possible, could your DS be excused from the math at school altogether if he's already competent in it? Would they allow him to do online math at his own pace (Aleks or EPGY, eg.) while the other kids are doing math? Is there any possibility of a bilingual tutor going in to teach him math, if the school is not keen on online programs not in that second language? (Although I'm guessing there are probably online math programs in different languages too...)

I don't know anything about dual immersion either, but the math thing is ridiculous. Where the math program ends in the school system is not the concern of the elementary school. Their concern should be keeping the spark alive and meeting his needs NOW. Who knows where you might be a few years down the road? If you're still in this school system by the time he runs out of calculus, there are college courses available to take concurrently. If there aren't any where you live, they are online.

My DS8 is going into 4th grade this year, and he will be taking 6th grade math in the middle school provisionally, perhaps moving to 7th if he turns out to be too bored with that since he's already had all of 6th and most of 7th in ALEKS. He did ALEKS exclusively last year while his class was working on their math. He did burn out on it by the end of the year, which is why we're trying to train him to the classroom again. They also are starting on online high school this year for our area, and we may get him into a class or two there by spring.

I don't know how it would work with your immersion thing, but I would keep trying on the math thing. They need to worry about now, and leave the future lack of classes for you and the future school to worry about.

Hi Laura,

I agree with Nautigal that you may want to continue to challenge them on this, if you feel like it is worth the effort (i.e. how unhappy is your child with current math, will they actually differentiate, etc). Was the decision maker in this case the math coordinator for the district (or the GT coordinator, or ?).

It sounds as though a false choice was set up -- bilingual but no appropriate math vs. single language with appropriate math. But there are many ways to make it bilingual with appropriate math (including online math, for example, as Nautigal pointed out). And even if this was truly the choice, there is not one "right" answer, some families would prioritize the dual language, and some the math.

A few questions, and forgive me if this is in another post of yours, I have been mostly away from the board for the last 4 weeks.

1. Are you pretty clear about what you think your child needs? What is it (1 year SA, 2 years?)?

2. Do they agree that he needs the SA but just say they can't make it happen, or do they deny he needs "more?"

3. What other decision makers are out there - the principal, a different coordinator?

Hopefully we can brainstorm some responses if you feel like you would like to pursue this.

Cat

What about spending a summer in the target language in an immersion program then going to school in that nation the following summer followed up by yearly trips? With a babysitter who will speak only the target language?

As for dual, why not a grade skip in dual?

This was the main reason we chose NOT to have ds5 in the first year Chinese dual language program. Math is taught in Chinese and since it was a first year program there are no other grades.


Our schools (entire district) had blocked math starting this year (yea for tracking). So, he won't be missing anything and wont have to sit thru lower level math.

DS8 is in the first year of this dual program - the guinea pig class.

THe school personnel that I've spoken to saying that a math sa is not possible: principal, dual coordinator, g&t teacher, psychologist and his teachers. The principal also said the math coordinator said no.

Finally they let me in on the decision making process. grade 3 & 4 are on different schedules, so if he goes to 4, he'll miss something else in 3 and still have to sit through 3math.

I will need everyone here to help once I have his WISC & W/J scores - my guess is he'll show mild giftedness all around and math... maybe a little higher.

He's doing mostly grade 4 math, some grade 5, but lots of holes b/c I only partial HS and go with the enthusiasm. For example, he multiplies into the thousands, knows some division, nothing he can't add/subtract, add/sub fractions, can make fractions into common denominators for comparitive purposes - great spacial abilities, good with word problems.... and on & on.

Anyway, the testing I assume will help me better understand his learning needs for me to further advocate and pinpoint what he needs.

We somewhat feel that our hands are tied. I think having the bilingual component will serve a greater purpose in the long run - as long as we can keep his math enthusiasm sparked and his needs addressed. Which I think we can (with or w/o the school's help), then in grade 6, he will actually be able to move and take higher level maths.

I recall them saying the computer program wasn't an option in the class but that the teacher would address differentiation. I am holding their feet to the fire to figure out exactly what this means (and offering my help as this is a situation they'll need to work out for future dual classes, like DD7's next year!)

I am hoping that the G&T morning math seminar, the 1x/week math pull out, one morning a week HS and possibly an after school mathy club might be helpful to him.

DS8 isn't HG or PG so I teeter with knowing how much pushing forward is best and how much just letting him be is best.

My concerns are that he is a square peg being stuffed into a round hole in school - he does 2 things as once & gets in trouble b/c they think he's goofing off/not paying attention.

These "behavior" issues are beginning to chip away at his love for school... well, have totall chipped away at it.

Let me end my tirade on a short story. At dual camp this summer he got to meet his new spanish teacher. He took the stairs 2 at a time, as he did all through 2nd grade, and she said he'd have to stay in for 5 min. during the next recess to take them one at a time. He was totally confused, took it totally personally. Even said, trying to understand the discrepancy "I am so 'BAD' at school, but pretty 'GOOD' at home?"

So, in a math class, or any class where he's engaged & enthusiastic, perhaps he'd STAY that way??!!

Let me end my tirade on a short story. At dual camp this summer he got to meet his new spanish teacher. He took the stairs 2 at a time, as he did all through 2nd grade, and she said he'd have to stay in for 5 min. during the next recess to take them one at a time. He was totally confused, took it totally personally. Even said, trying to understand the discrepancy "I am so 'BAD' at school, but pretty 'GOOD' at home?"

Oh, that is sad.

Well, at least they admitted that scheduling was the primary issue in not allowing the SA (although it sounds like they have not conceded that he needs "more").

When do you have testing scheduled? I think having that information will help - especially if you feel there are gaps. I know that I one point several years ago I felt like my DS really knew material at X grade level, but when I signed him up for Aleks I realized he actually only knew about half of it (albeit it was still several years ahead). Having objective evidence, like the SCAT test, or achievement testing or MAP testing really helps - I think schools just have a hard time with assessments by parents, even if you do bring in portfolio items, etc.

I have the CoGat and his MAP. THe school says MAP doesn't really count b/c the kids are scoring high but they don't demonstrate the ability to do the work in class b/c in class, it's in Spanish and MAP is English.

For math??? How can they say that? I mean, math is kind of a universal language - if he knows what %, x, <, etc. mean, I don't see why it matters whether he yet knows the equivalent word in Spanish (that becomes language instruction, not math instruction). It seems to me they are really full of hot air, in this regard (although maybe there is some reasonable explanation that I just can't think of).

If his MAP math score showed that he knew the material 2 years ahead, the issue of language would not be a concern for me - even with word problems, once again, if he can do the same word problems in English, they are talking about a language instruction issue, not some lack of math knowledge.