Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Testing results-a long story

My son has been tested 4 times in his life. The first time was by the early intervention program for developmental delays. He was found delayed in several areas and given early intervention for speech and language. No IQ test was given but it was obvious and the testing showed that his cognitive functioning was fine.

The next time was 4 years later and he needed an evaluation by the schools to either place him in a specific ESE program or dismiss him. I was told they would be doing an IQ and additional speech testing. The IQ test was some ridiculous test and not a WISC or a SB because they didn't want to penalize him with his speech/language problems so they gave him a Non-verbal scale of some sort (I don't have the name of the test right here). At this point he was speaking and intelligible and it was stupid that they didn't do the WISC...I personally think the other test was easier and quicker. His score was like 108. I'll come back to this later.

He was tested privately at 8 but I never could get a written report from the psychologist after repeatedly asking every month. Finally, I gave up. This was a WISC and I really wish I had that report.

Now he is heading to middle school. I am not too invested in having him labeled gifted. I don't think he is HG and I know he is a smart cookie who works hard. The services in middle school are based on NCLB testing and basically are just you are placed in advanced classes or regular classes based on those scores. He will be in advanced classes. There are no pullouts or other services. But his 5th grade teachers requested that he be tested for gifted, so he was.

This test once again was not a WISC but instead it was a Reynolds Intellectual Assessment Scales. He got:
Verbal Intelligence Index SS 134 %tile Rank 99 Performance range Significantly Above Average
Nonverbal SS 101 %tile 53 PRange Average
Composite SS 118 %tile 88 PR Above Average

The report mentions that the 33 point spread is statistically significant.

So this test confirms the test back when he was 6 that his non-verbal is just average. And they tested him non-verbally back then so as not to penalize him when they should have tested both. And it turns out he has a 2E dx of Aspergers.

So my question is...do we have the full picture? Would a WISC provide more information? I know when the psychologist testing him when he was 8 one of the subtests that was really low was processing speed.

We will have a staffing next school year. Should I ask for them to retest with a WISC? Or ask for them to pay for outside testing? Within the school system I don't know if they will staff him based on the Verbal portion alone or not. I don't know exactly what being staffed would get him in the way of services. He doesn't get any services or accommodations for his Aspergers.

One of the many frustrating aspects of working with kids who have Asperger's or are on the autism scale is assessment. In my experience, you may find out there is something your kid can do that nobody knew until they tested, but you are never going to get an accurate picture of what they can't do from a standardized or norm-referenced test.

The nature of Asperger's and autism usually means that you have to modify the administration of the test so that the statistical measures are not particularly valid anyway. "Standardized" does not apply to these kids, and without data that fits on a normal curve, you're never going to get an accurate IQ. WISC or any other results for students with Asperger's contain a little bit of information that may be valid, but they cannot be taken as a summary of cognitive ability the way you can use that data for other children.

The 33 point spread being statistically significant means there is a profound pattern of strengths and weaknesses (a difference of more than a SD and a half in different areas for the same child). That discussion is part of looking at the IDEA eligibility category Specific Learning Disability, but with those scores at least average, and with the Asperger's complicating the picture, an SLD eligibility would be unlikely in this case.

But these are team decisions, they are not predetermined. You never can tell exactly what's going to happen until the eligibility meeting is over, even if you have all the data.

I just heard this quote at the SENG conference this past weekend regarding big spreads like this:

"If your head is in the oven and your feet are in the freezer, does that make your middle just about right?"



http://teachingmybabytoread.blog.com/gifted/

I have been thinking about this for a couple of weeks. I guess I go to the staffing and listen to what they have to say and not worry about if he is staffed gifted or not. It really won't impact him as far as services go because there is no pullout or gifted classes but instead just a general advanced track and he will be in that.

I know that his verbal reasoning is extremely high, I listen to it all day long and read all the stuff he writes. I didn't really need a test to tell me that. I feel grateful that whatever is going on with his nonverbal reasoning isn't below average and causing him problems in school. I am sorry that there is such a spread and can only assume that the Asperger's contributes but there is really nothing I can do about it. I don't know that a different test would show any other information other than everything I already know.

Unless someone knows more about the WISC and thinks he would do better on that than this Reynolds...are there reviews out there that compare the two?

sweetie, I am reading Different Minds at the moment, a book about gifted children with ADHD or Aspergers (or both). I think you may find it really useful. Its available in paperback and kindle versions on amazon if you can't find a copy to borrow.

My Asperger's son with visual processing and fine motor deficits (common in Asperger's individuals) did significantly better on the Reynolds than on the WISC: the Reynolds does not have any sections that rely on motor output and visual-motor coordination, like the Processing Speed and Performance sections of the WISC; the verbal section of the Reynolds does not test social comprehension, unlike the WISC, and the non-verbal items on the Reynolds are less visually cluttered and easier to see than some of the non-verbal items on the WISC.

You can see a comparison of my son's scores on each here.

If we hadn't already known about his issues, the WISC would have been helpful in flagging them, while the Reynolds would have been less so, but if you are not using the test to screen for the presence of problems but are looking for a more accurate assessment of intellectual functioning, I would say that the Reynolds is likely superior for someone with Asperger's.

My son doesn't have Asperger's or any learning disabilities. He got on the Rias at age 6: 177 non-verbal (hit the ceiling), 143 verbal, and >160 FSIQ. He got all the way to the end of the non-verbal, which is normed for adults up to age 94. That correlated with his Raven's matrix score of 99.1%.
The RIAS is shorter than the WISC and doesn't have the speed-type tests. There are quite a few articles showing that the two tests have predictive value/overlap with each other.