Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Test Recommendation

[quote=Peter]I 2nd LitleCherub. SCAT score of 443 is >90 percentile compared to 4th graders. (a little variable between Math or Verbal)

So, be patient with me... where does this indicate ~90% for 4th?

When I open the link, I see all the grades - but these are % ranking for those who took the SCAT not "all" 4th graders.

What am I missing?

:0

Ok. I see this - his % is 57. So that's pretty far from 90%! He was also 426 verbal putting him at the 52%. Again, just missing the CTY cut off.

However, if I understand correctly means that he's performing about mid-range for a 4th grader, but was only a 2nd grader at the time, right?

Still seems like a sound argument for *something* - to which I imagine the school will say (and already has) that their G&T will address.

He will receive 90 min/2xweek in LA & 60min/1xweek for math of G&T services.

Sufficient?

Laura,

I don't think SCAT (raw and scaled score) for 2011 is not out yet. It looks like 2011 score is higher. My DD7 got 443 in Math and her percentile is 86. It may be a little lower for your DS.(boys do get higher score)

I do not know where you get your percentile from. Is it in your DS's student participation report from CTY? If Math is 443, your DS should qualify for High Honors award. (look for it in grade 2 line and should also be in the report from CTY)

http://cty.jhu.edu/ts/awards.html

Any level of enrichment is better than none and pretty soon, your DS will outgrow that arrangement as well. We are thinking of self pace CTY online classes (Math) during school for our DD.

Yes, there is a typo - and it is mine. His raw was not 443, it was 433. I apologize for the miscommunication - certainly a 443 would be a whole different ball game!

So now this makes sense.

However, I do feel all of this has prompted some good movement. I spoke with a friend/psychologist who interpreted his cogat's and put it into terms of what I need to be saying to the school and documentatation that should go along with it.

It is a good place to start, with some well guided questions - such as, if the school is concerned that he'll be missing *something* by being accelerated into grade 4 math... what is that *something* and how would it be different from missing more *something* through partial HS?

This psych. has lots of experience adovcating and dealing with our system - while she's moved away, she agreed to be part of our team and be on a conference call in the Fall (she recommended that I ask the school psych./teachers/ and anyone else who the psych. thinks should be there, come to a meeting week 1 of school to outline what "differentiation" will look like as well as other concerns - like the question above).

I know there are heaps of you who have had experiences with these types of meetings - any suggestions on how to foster cooperation with the schools??

The coordinator said the teacher could ask him to draw visuals of the math concepts she'll be teaching and challenge him in ways that would bring depth. Although, I don't really know what this means.

This is good info though - I am trying to figure out and understand what would be best for him - and while I know he doesn't compare to most of the kids here, there isn't any place else to get straight answers!

My other thoughts were that after grade 5 if it was indicated he could then go to higher grades for math classes if need be.

Sounds like maybe this might be a wait & see and stick with "depth"... even though I don't know what that means and he still ends up bored and in trouble.

Can you tell me more about this?

Have you talked with the school about the possibility of him taking some end-of-3rd tests (like math)? Sometimes this can get teachers looking directly at their own curricula with which they are very familiar and seeing how your DS's knowledge compares with what they would be teaching him.

Also, schools can vary considerably in students' general achievement levels, so while it's very helpful to know the national percentile scores, it can also be helpful to know how your DS's scores (like his MAP scores) compare to other students in his grade and in the grades above him. Perhaps it would be possible to get this information from the school? Maybe at least find out averages for each grade level and/or whether your DS might have some other students in his grade who are at a level similar to his?

Another possibility, if the school is resistant to subject or grade acceleration, might be to allow your DS to pre-test units of study (like, again, math) and if he meets some benchmark, allow him to work on some materials you send from home or on some other materials they provide.

Now, this would be where ability (IQ) testing could come in handy. With achievement testing he can show what he knows. With ability testing you're more able to get a picture of how your DS learns. If he scores quite high, then you can be more confident that he learns at a faster pace and more deeply than most people and would likely continue to need a more challenging curriculum presented at a faster pace. If, however, ability testing shows that your DS tends more to the "bright" but not-gifted side of things, perhaps things would get harder for him in the long-term if he were to skip now.

(Of course, there are always many more things to consider other than testing, both in the short-term and in the long-run. But you probably know that! :))

At the start of this, I suggested that the school pre-test him for the grade 3 curriculum to be sure he had mastered it. They flat out said NO.

I am trying to find out where his RIT score is compared to incoming 4th. I haven't asked for RIT scores for those he'll be grouped with.

My fear with differentiation in the class is that his math teacher is his Spanish teacher... it's all taught in Spanish and she'll be struggling with many students anyway and not have much time to spend with DS8 let alone pre-testing each unit. In a perfect world, however...

I hadn't thought about faster vs. deeper. I know he's fast. He can master concepts rather quickly, has an amazing memory but again, not sure how one would assess deeper - maybe that he can apply those concepts to other new ones which allows him to learn those concepts on his own, easier, faster?

He is definately an out of the box thinker too... in our partial HS I have sometimes been amazed...

I thought the CoGAT non-verbal addressed this ability and that it roughly correlated to an IQ. We were recommended to not just do the WISC but also the WIATT (I think this was what it was called) for this purpose exactly.

are your rit scores from NWEA MAP testing? If you share them someone here can tell you where they fall.

Sheila