Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy intro and ?s about educational needs per scores

Hi,

We recently had both of our boys tested for early entry into our AIG program in Raleigh, NC. We are leaving private school to go back to the public schools as our private did not offer gifted education only leveled classes using Direct Instruction (I was never a big fan of it but necessary at the time.) Our kids start next week and will be evaluated for their learning styles, levels of independence, etc. for two weeks. At which time, they will convene a meeting with us to discuss the Differential Educational Plans they are suggesting for each child. I am quickly processing many books on gifted children and education now that I have real scores to go by. Previously, I had my suspicions, but nothing concrete enough for the school system (our is 16th largest in the US).

I am trying to be prepared at the meeting at the end of July so that I can adequately assess their offerings. I am having difficulties in understanding just "how" gifted my boys are and am hoping for some guidance from this board. My school seems to think it's no big deal, they can handle it, but I'm not as assured.

My oldest is 8, I thought he was high achieving but his scores said he was gifted. Here they are:

WISC IV (% means percentile)
FSIQ 135 99%
VC 134 99%
PR 129 97%
WM 123 94%
PS 123 94%
(psyc said he was very methodical and focused in his completion of tasks which slowed him down, ie perfectionism)

Woodcock Johnson, 3rd add.
Reading Comp 121 (91%) (vocab hindered him at 80)
Math 133 (99%)

Same kid has anger issues, flying off the handle easily though is doing better now that he's been home for the summer for a month. He's a very sweet kid, supremely athletic, short on patience, reads like a fiend, can do any lego project thrown at him, etc. Not sure how much of the temperment is gifted based or just that he's my son.

He's a rising 3rd grader, our system does AIG evals mid year 3rd grade requiring 90% or higher to then get the CogAt which helps determine referral into the gifted program. I didn't want him to wait for a year for identification as that's why we left the system in the first place. Do you think he can have his needs met in class via differentiation or should I push for single subject acceleration in math?

Kid #2,
This one we knew was gifted . Here are his scores:

WISC-IV
FSIQ 143 99.8%
VC 128 97%
PR 145 99.9%
WM 141 99.7%
PS 92%

Woodcock-Johnson
Reading Comp 141 99.7%
Math 165(zowie--I'm awful with math) 99.9%

This kid is rising 1st, I know the system is interested in grade skipping. My husband and I are not so interested. We live in an affluent area, the school is comprised of probably 25% middle income, 25% mid-high income and 50% high income (if you are looking at a national scale). We don't want him to get too close to his older brother (they are almost exactly 2 years apart in age), nor do we want him to miss out of being valedictorian as the competition is fierce by high school. He is very comfortable with kids his age and older by 2-3 years. Last year, in private school, he did the NC 2nd grade curriculum and passed with 97-100% in all of his classes.

Any advice or further questions you would ask are greatly appreciated,

very excited to have a board like this,
Shannon Lora, Raleigh, NC

I'm relatively new to this, and not an expert by any stretch of the imagination. But, I'll humor myself and attempt to answer your post. The real experts will be along soon I'm sure to offer their more experienced views.

It seems like you have two levels of gifted (LOG) going on. (This is just based on scores, and nothing else.)

I would think the older child's LOG will be a little easier to address in public school than your younger. Most gifted schools cut off at 130, and he is past that, but maybe not as far past to require more acceleration.

How is he doing in math? Is he bored? From the WJ-III alone, it seems that differentiation would be a good place to start. I don't know that I would push for subject acceleration at this point unless you feel he isn't being adequately challenged with just differentiation.

So, IMO, try the gifted program at his grade level and see how it goes.

Your younger may present more of a challenge.

He's almost a full standard deviation above the gifted cut off, so I would imagine he may need more than just the gifted class.

If it were my child, it almost is,(mine is a year younger, 140 on the SB-V) I would consider a grade skip. I understand not wanting to get him to close to his brother. I'm not sure how families deal with that. (My GT DS is the oldest, so I don't need to worry about him passing anyone.) I also understand the competitive school situation, but if he isn't adequately challenged, you run the risk of underachievement, and then you are no better off. (That's not to say that will definitely happen, of course he could sail through school marvelously with his age mates, make valedictorian, and be on his way to Princeton.) I would at least push for acceleration in Math. If he was in K, and doing 2nd grade math, he for sure needs more. 165 is wicked high.

Welcome to the group!

I would add that Kid #2 qualifies for DYS on teh basis of those scores, and you should apply.

I wasn't sure, I don't know how to calculate GAI. Yet. (She says with an evil laugh)

You don't need GAI to qualify, only one of either VCI or PRI, and one broad achievement score in the qualifying range.

Between the PRI of 145 and the math achievement of 165, it looks like this kiddo meets the criteria.

Thanks for your response . We really want to avoid grade skipping, this area is highly competitive (surrounded by 11 colleges and universities) for scholarships, etc. It would be a last resort. My youngest is very independent and seeks information on his own,but, he loves people and works well in groups too.

I forgot to mention that my oldest was subject accelerated in the leveled classes at our previous school. He has completed the 3rd grade NC curriculum in math, reading comp, writing, spelling and language arts. He is a rising 3rd grader, so I'm not sure if going one grade level up is enough since it would just be next on the agenda anyway. He did complain of being bored and rarely got stuck (high As for his report card as well). Long division seemed to stick a bit but my husband was able to explain it and then he got it.

We are going to apply for DYS, any help is very much appreciated. What exactly is GAI and how is it figured, we didn't receive that score with our reports.

thanks,
Shannon

For some reason I didn't see the 145 initially. I should probably leave these posts to people who actually look at the numbers.

Please keep trying Amber - all you need is practice!

Good that you are appying to DYS. I would put in an application for your older son as well, IQ plus portfolio - he may not get accepted at this time, but my guess is that his GAI is over 145.
Opps - my eyeballs slipped and I misread. DS#1 is solidly gifted, but may well have lots of peers. A full skip might still be a great idea of him, depends on what they are teaching compared to what he is ready to learn.

GAI is 'general abilities index' and based on the strenths of Verbal and Performance without the 'hiderance' of the speed and WM index which are subject to cooperation issues. Don't get me wrong - those scores are very high, and not low enough to signal any kind of problem, but they are low enough to give a falsely deflated FSIQ.

We can calculate GAI if you post the 3 subtests in Verbal and Performance subscales or your tester can.

I think that you should skip both kids 'for now.' If by the time they are in Middle School you see any reason that they can't 'compete' with their current grade, you can keep them home for a year 'going deep' or you can send them to private school for an extra year of 8th grade so they will be ready for the local competition. The idea is to try and meet their needs at the time, and stay flexible.

I thought my son was ready and he did 9th grade, age 13, at the local High School and we all saw that he wasn't ready, so I sent him to private school to repeat 9th grade. Apparently that happens very frequently even with boys who weren't skipped to start with.

But I wonder if your older son isn't so angry because he feels shamed by being given 'baby work' and treated 'like a baby' by his teachers. This was a big issue with my son. Lack of challenge was making him second guess himself, on top of the yearning to learn.

Love and More Love,
Grinity