Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment WISC-IV GAI Info

Hello, I've been reading this forum now for a few weeks. I find the discussions very informative and soooo interesting! I was wondering if anyone could help with GAI info?

My DS10 took the WISC-IV when he was in second grade, as part of a school evaluation because of behavioral issues at school (I would like to discuss these issues also on a future post). He is now in 4th grade at a Montessori school. He is doing better but still recovering from his earlier school experiences and his intensities( more on this later also). What I was wondering is if any one would know how to estimate his GAI from his four indices. I do not have the actual subtest scores. I did ask for further info after the test but did not receive a response. We already have left the school by that time. However, I think I will be contacting the school again to see if the subtest scores are avaiable.



VCI 140

PRI 133

WMI 102

PSI 94



Thanks for any info

barb

Thanks for the info

Hi Barbarajean,
Looking forward to hearing the whole ugly story. Just so you know - that kind of a spread can be part of what knots up you kid inside and creates that kind of pressure, in my personal experience. There can also be '2E' issues that depress PSI and WM. Just want to let you know that your son is really very gifted even with his bottlenecks and his behavior and how the teachers react to him.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

Dottie- I sent you a PM. I have a quick question for you! Thanks

First, Dottie I want to say thank you for your responses about the GAI. I could not find a chart from IQ to the scaled scores.

Also, thank you Grinity for your thoughts. I have read somewhere (I think on this forum) that the fact that there is spread is a disability in its own right.

I have written a shorten version of "the whole ugly story". I'm afraid this might be too long, but maybe someone may have similar experiences and find it interesting to compare?? At the end I have listed some counselors I am wondering if anyone has any experience with them. I'm from the Chicago subs , Does anyone know of any good counselors?

Well I have been going back and forth about my ds10's behavioral issues. At times I feel the issues started because there was an educational mismatch along with immaturity, shyness at school and strong emotional intensity. At other times I feel the issues are because of possible LDs.

Before K he was quiet and shy at pre-school but not outside of school. By two he was speaking quite well in long sentences, in fact someone asked me how old is he? and could not believe how well he carried on a conservation at 2 years old. In pre-school DS often tried to get the teacher to stay with him to help him with work that he was more than capable of doing on his own. But when he went into public K he "up-ed the anti" to get attention. He was now one student of at least 28. He started waving his arms in kids faces, dropping the table's pencils under the table etc. The more we told him to stop these behaviors the more he did these behaviors.

First grade thru second became worse. We were communicating with the teachers about these behaviors. There are many stories I can post but this post is probably too long already?? (I'm new with posting first time today). Well by this time group bullying was beginning by both the kids and teachers..there are more stories... but the following story just breaks my heart and shows the general situation.

My DS had one good friend at the school. They had met in preschool. They always got along. However, my DS was awkward at school, his friend was not. His friend made other friends at school but continued to play and eat lunch with DS. But as first grade rolled on his friend ate with him less frequently. My DS said it was because his friend had other friends and sometimes his friend needed to eat with his other friends too, its only fair. Ds's friend could not eat with his other friends and DS at the same time b/c the other friends did not like DS. Ds said that everybody can not like everyone. But since his friend took turns eating with DS it was ok with Ds. I was concerned about this but what can you do. Of coarse this situation got worse...

They also used to play frequently at recess, but then less often. The other friends would pull DSs friend away. One day DS's friend came up and said to him, "I have a way that we can play together in front of my other friends. We can still play the volcano game. I will run around with my friends well you build the volcano by yourself with wood chips as we usually do togrther, I'll try to run by and throw a wood chip or two on the volcano. When you have finished building raise your hand and instead of both of us knocking down as usual I'll come by and knock it down for the eruption, that way we will be playing and it will look like we are not playing" Oh boy that just broke my heart.


Finally, at our request we had an evaluation and the WISC_IV was done along with Kaufman test of educational achievement-II. However, at the meeting to decide if there could be an IEP they said no because of his IQ and achievement. The minimum that I wanted was for ds to transfer schools within the district they would not even do that, even though they knew group isolation was occurring. Ds started at a new private school for 3rd grade.

At this time I did some research to try to find a psy, I was very concerned about misdiagnosis because of his bullying experience, social awkwardness, intensity, and overexcitabiliity. But when I found one they wanted $2,000 up front, with the new school tuition we could not afford this, and this up front $$ made me weary.. A quack??

For 3rd grade he started out OK at a private Montessori school, He has improved greatly, but he is still having issues. He makes noises when working by himself at school. The teacher says she thinks that he is imagining when he makes these noises and/or is bored, but his behavior is not appropriate for being bored. But when working one on one with another student the teacher said that he is fine. But he will overreact when things go wrong. He feels when things don't go his way its b/c people are against him or its not fair. But he does play with kids at school, and has one good friend at school who he also sees outside of school. And often plays well at recess. and has been invited to birthday parties and interacted wonderfully. However, he can have trouble when approaching new groups.

He seems to have more unusual traits at school than at home, except that he is very intense and stubborn at both home and school. This can be extremely exhausting and frustrating.

My initial thought about all this after reading the book, The Misdiagnosis and the Dual Diagnosis of the gifted...was that these behaviors could be from an educational mismatch, along with asynchronous development, overexcitabiliity, stubbornness, intensity, which caused bullying, which then caused anger, mistrust, and lack of positive experience, but I think some sort of 2E may also be present.

We are now planning to go for evaluation and counseling, but I want to choose someone who has experience with the above.
Some names I have found are:

Amend Psychological Services in Kentucky
Gifted Development Center in Denver Silverman
Belin-Blank Center in Iowa
Mc Kee Mark M and Duff Jennifer in Naperville, IL

Also has anyone heard of Barbara Post about when the labels don't fit?

Any one have similar experiences with their dc?
I'm sorry if this long I just didn't know how to break the history.

Barb

This part here really breaks my heart, and I have to cry a bit now.

The sadness flashes into anger when I know that the 'Adult Bullies' at the first school, and well meaning Adults at the next school call him immature because of his outbursts.

It is confusing. And heartbreaking. And "It gets better." Go to YouTube and have a good laugh and cry at the "It gets better" campaign aimed toward Gay Youth. As we grow up we can make more choices about who we hang out with and how we spend our time - so for both Gay Youth and Gifted Youth: It DOES get better.

Lots of your 'ugly story' reminds me of our family's ugly story. My son is 14 now and It DOES get better.

BTW - I highly recommend Dr. Ed Amend in Kentucky. Yup - we traveled. A full evaluation can cost about 2K. Is it worth it? There is no magic bullet, but if medication is going to be part of the picture (ADD was an issue for us) I sure would want to be sure, and that is what Dr. Ed was finally able to do for me. Call him on the phone and ask to talk it through before you book your appointment to see if you two 'vibe' together.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

My favorite parenting book for parenting an Intense kid is 'Transforming the Difficult Child Workbook' - if you get it and want help applying it, feel free to start a thread about it and I'll try and help.

((Peace Hands Bow))
Grinity

Barb, You found an excellent book - Misdiagnosis! A real treasure. Good for you!
G

I second this! We haven't seen him yet, I'm thinking we will wait another 1.5-2 years for the WISC. Anyways, just speaking to him on the phone was comforting! It was a "Yes, you know my kid isn't crazy!" kind of vibe. He is really nice, and knows his stuff. He had an answer for all of my questions, that was a first. It will be a 5 hour drive and a hotel stay for a few days, but I think it will be worth it.

Hi Barb:
I'm sorry your son had trouble with the first years of school. I read your post and the first thing I thought of was "good mom!". It sounds like you are working to find a better fit for your son and asking the right questions. I had a couple of thoughts for you.

1) I couldn't tell from your post if you have been spending time in your son's classroom. It is very normal in Montessori classrooms to observe, and I would suggest this wholeheartedly. You can see his behavior yourself and kind of sort it thought a "gifted" filter. I remember watching my dd almost run from work to work in her 2nd grade classroom. The teacher might have said hyperactivity, but I knew she was just trying to work through the basics to get "to the good stuff".

2) I would also support your inclination to find a counselor / child psych near you to work with you and your son for a bit. It sounds like your son needs to perhaps "unlearn" some of the thought processes he jumped to in 1/2nd grade and also learn some of the basic "friend" skills. My dd went for a few months to play therapy when she was in kindy; what a big difference it has made for her.