Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment New to Forum, would like feedback on WISC-IV

Hello all! Am quite new here. Have our very first meeting with school principal. Son is 7 years, just finishing first grade. Had WISC-IV done because of frustration, even though first greade teacher was pretty great. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated. Here are the scores:

VCI 138
PRI 137
WMI 138
PSI 128

Full: 145
GAI: 146

One more thing - not sure if relevant, but had one 19, two 18s and three 17s on subtest scores

Hi MWM4,
In your ideal world, what would you hope for the principal to offer?
Those test scores aren't just gifted, they are another standard deviation beyond gifted - so - unusually gifted!

download an application to DYS if you are in the US, ok?

Sometimes it helps me to list every frustration I think that my son is going through, and then rank order them.

then I list the possible solutions and make a grid of which possible solutions are likely to solve the various frustrations.

To me, the number one catch phrase to use with the principal is:
I want my child to develop good work ethic, for that he needs to be in learning situations that challenge him on a regular basis.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

Thank you Grinity - I was hoping you would reply after reading some of your prior posts.

I think I would like subject acceleration in math, but am worried I am dismissing grade acceleration because I know that it is a more difficult decision.

We are meeting with the school on Tuesday and our tester the following day for her interpretations.

Here are a few of my "crazy mom" questions:
1. What is the deal with the PSI - does that pull his GAI lower?

2. Would it hurt him to be part of a group of kids at Davidson-qualifying levels if he barely qualifies? (I am not articulating this well, but you probably know what I mean)

Thanks, all! Dottie/Grinity, what are the options for achievement tests? Also, in your experience, what is a "normal" path for a 145 level kid - grade accel, subject matter, etc.?

Also, would he be eligible for extended norms testing?

I'm not Grinity or Dottie, but I'll chime in too. The extended norms can be figured from the testing he's already had if his scores are eligible. Some 18s and 19s are, some aren't. It falls back on the scaled numbers, I believe. Do you have more data than just the subtest totals?

In terms of achievement tests, I'd take a look at the DYS criteria and have him take one of those. If you're looking at applying before the next round of talent search testing in the winter of next year, I'd go with the WIAT or WJ. If you feel that you can wait, the EXPLORE might give you more info than the WJ or WIAT b/c it isn't such a brief test and it will compare him to 8th graders on an 8th grade test which may give you good insight into how much he has self taught.

In re to what a 145+ kid needs, my personal opinion would be that it is very individual but you can safely assume that it is going to involve some form of acceleration whether that be subject acceleration or grade acceleration or something else. One of my girls isn't in that range but is more than moderately gifted and she has done well with a single grade skip. My other dd has been IQ tested twice -- once with scores in that range and once not. However, both times she was very erratic within subtests and much lower on PSI and WMI than PRI and VCI. B/c she is already very young for grade and has ADD and anxiety and the achievement scores fall more in that "predicted range" for HG kids like Dottie mentioned (135-140), she's done fine with GT reading classes and subject acceleration in math only. She's not likely to need or want anything more than that.

It looks like your ds is more well rounded and not as erratic as my kids, though, and if his achievement is up there too, I would at least take a look at a grade skip and see what you and he think after exploring it more.

eta: I see that Dottie beat me to responding while I was typing!

I agree with what Dottie said, word for word - and achievement testing is a good idea, for just those reasons.

Totally - PSI and WM don't factor into what makes a kid gifted, but they sure are nice to have! My son's WM is around 128 and with his strong Verbal and Performance scores, it's sort of scary to watch him use his WM. His PSI is around 100! That's a problem, because all those amazing ideas inside just jam up at the lips. 128 - not a problem, except for the problem that it (potentially) makes elementary school even more like nails on a chalkboard.
Weird but true - isn't Math strange? Remember the shape of the bell curve - 2/3rd of DYS kids are bunched up on that line.

I will say that it's still not a bad question. I ask myself all the time if hanging out with kids who did calculus in 8th grade is bad for my son's ego, and then I remind myself - it's better for him to meet them now than to spend his entire K-12 years thinking he's the be all and end all, only to get to college and have reality hit him in the face. At least I'm around now to help out.

And what about me? Is hanging out with Moms of kids who achieve much more than my own son shift my perspective? Who knows? A child's personality makes so much difference...some are very achievement orriented, some are inspired by an ideal and will work tirelessly IF the subject is of their own choosing, some are quite content to appreciate the world's beauty just as it is. That's what I've come to learn, and I think it's worth the risk.

Plus, I get teary-eyed remembering the look of sheer joy on my son's face when he gets around real peers. Plus the look of sheer joy on my face when I get around real peer, like my Dottie dear! That's worth the risk too.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

That's about what my dd12's profile looks like as well -- high scores on VCI, PRI, and WMI and even lower than your ds' on PSI (42nd percentile which was something like 90-something). I, on the other hand, have a personal weakness in memory and am really, really fast so dd's complete lack of using a planner drives me batty but she has the most amazing memory and it hasn't tripped her up yet!

P.S. -- this is my kid who has skipped a grade and she's still a stellar student even with her speed being truly low (or at least on the lower end of "average.")

This is all so helpful - thank you very much. Sounds like achievement tests are our next step.

Dottie, thank you for sharing that grade acceleration for math worked for you. On some level, I think I just need to hear that this change may be enough from someone who knows what they are talking about : )

Cricket2, I don't get raw data until Wednesday.

Grinity, I agree that humility is an important lesson for kids like ours. The struggle with my guy is that he has a number of emotional things going on - perfectionism (had a total shutdown in art class because he is "terrible - no horrible Mommy!" at art, anxiety (nailbiting, incessant hair-twirling), occasional outbursts ("You are telling me this is going to be required by TWELVE YEARS!"), etc. I worry that exposing him to that higher peer group will hurt, not help. But, as you said, some things are worth the risk. And, it sounds like he would have many kids like him.

My dd12 had significant perfectionism going prior to her grade skip (she skipped 5th). She took the EXPLORE that year (4th) and came out crying. She also did worst on her best subject (reading) b/c she was so blown away that she didn't know everything immediately as she usually did in reading that she left the test three times to go cry in the bathroom and didn't finish the reading piece by a long shot. She was still a bit above average for an 8th grader on reading, though, if I recall correctly. Overall, I'd say that being exposed to material that isn't all a cake walk for her and having friends who are better than her in some areas has significantly decreased her expectation of herself that she should be the best at everything with no work.