Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment testing complete

Giving a test "out of age limits" is a problem because you don't have a standardization sample - you can only compare the 4'10" to a 6'. For an example of why this was a problem, my daughter's second grade teacher was very upset because none of her students made "a year's growth" on NWEA, which was 10 points. My 10th grade son told me his score, so I looked it up, and he only needs 3 more points to stay at the 96th percentile next year. So this is the same test, but 2nd graders grow 10 points and high 10th graders 3 points. We know that because we have the standardization sample.

So over those 14 months, between 4'10" to 6, should she grow ten points, or three, or what?

There does tend to be "age equivalents" to "raw scores," which I think aren't affected by the subject being out of age limits. So that's something.

For second grade MAP, the growth estimate depends on the starting RIT. For students with a starting RIT of 212, the growth estimate is ~6. For students with a starting RIT of 170, the growth estimate is ~17. See table 5.1b on page 43. http://pickens.it.schoolfusion.us/m...ssionid=14d1e9266e4482d198ebc39c6e6bc9c3

Its 5:15 am so forgive this if it is unclear in any way.

Well I met with the psychologist regarding the testing done with my DD at 4 years 10 months and here is what she reported:

My DD scored a 0 on the autism scale. She clearly said that she does not appear to have Aspergers.

She does have many symptoms of ADHD,but not enough to be diagnosed with it.

She scored in the 99.9th percentile on tests given, and hit ceilings. She gave her the EMDA (test of early math) and the TERA-III (a reading assessment). On both tests she was performing at least like a third grader (the reading test was pre-k to third). The psychologist admitted that the tests did not show her full range and may have had too low of a ceiling. The tester was not willing to discuss what tests she used during testing and was not open to my questions about them during testing. It felt very secretive. Maybe she thought I would prepare her for them and not get an accurate picture? Who knows. She wasn't good about returing calls or responding to email. Insurance is covering the testing so it wasn't like I was hiring her specifically for gifted identification. Now I am wondering of those types of tests are even useful for the schools.

She said that she did not recommend that she attend the public K and that she would need a special program because of the asychronous development. She said she needs to be with children her own age because of her impulse control issues and activity level, but needs advanced curriculm.

She also stressed that my DD's cognitive development should not be emphasized over her participation in situations with no right and wrong answers. This recommendation came from observations during testing where my DD expected herself to know everything and showed signs of being hard on herself (boy do I understand that tendancy). I wondered if she thought we sat around doing math problems all day here since she already spends 99% of her day just playing, doing crafts, romping around, etc. She is no longer in pre-k,and I just started doing a very brief sit down "homeschool" session with her in the last month or two, but that is always a tiny portion of her day and not even every day.

So,now what? I am going to call the public school and talk to the gifted teacher. Right now they only have programming that starts in third grade. I also plan on touching base with the local Montessori school. They would be able to give her academic challenges,but have no free play time except recess and no imaginary play toys. I think she needs both. I wish there were more options. The public K is only 2.5 hrs so even if it were a poor fit, she would be in and out of there very quickly. How much damage could that do? Homeschool is not an option. She needs outside influences and I need a break,which brings me to the final point...

The tester acknowledged that she was not an easy child to parent and was exhausting. During her testing, she was highly active, talked non-stop,and got bored very easily and would seek out stimulation such as playing with testing materials etc. esp.during boring tasks. She answered things before asked questions, and was silly. They had to discontinue a task of attention because she was bored with it and would get up and walk around.

What classroom works for a child like this????

Thanks for reading all this if you made it this far.

TwinkleToes, sounds familiar. Gifted kids can show symptoms of ADHD. It comes with the territory. I'd bet that your DD has no attention difficulties when she's focused on something she enjoys.

My heart goes out to you. Find a school to create a special educational plan 4 or more grades ahead and keeps your DD with agemates. Sure. And tomorrow Ill create an end to poverty and on Monday world peace will be solved.

Did the tester offer to call the Gifted Coordinator? Oh I didn't think so. I can't bear it when people with the mantle of athority give people very difficult tasks and then act as though it is the parents fault if they don't comply.

I think that it is time to call Aimee Yermish and ask the tester to send all the results to AY. Aimee can do a chart review and help you figure out some next steps.

I think that your tester hasn't seen a child like DD before and thinks you are some kind of Tiger Mom. Shame on the tester that they can't tell the difference.

For some kids that just plain isn't an answer during the elementary school years, and mine was one of them. The best thing anyone told me was:"Some of the hardest to raise kids become some of the coolest Adults."

I had to repeat this to myself over and over while DS was in Elementary school.


Pout and more pout
Grimity

Thank you for this hopeful thought Grinity! DS11 has been having a really dreadful week.

((Pat-Pat Verona))
Yup - sometimes the tail end of the school year is the very hardest! I hope next week is better, and that this weekend has many excellent moments.
Love and More Love,
Grinity

Yeah, that sounds very plausible (smirk) esp. with the suggestion to have her in a playful open environment while not forced to do work far below her skill level. My gut feeling is that these first few year of elementary school will be the hardest.

I'm just glad that insurance covered a good portion of testing. I am disappointed that she was unwilling to do IQ testing. I am going to look around for someone to help me look over everything and come up with a plan.

Thanks everyone

The last psych who tested my younger dd after a terrible 3rd grade year and setting into a pattern of underachievement said something about not accelerating her in the report. It read something along the lines of dd being able but it was irrelevant and that we should not place her in GT classes b/c she would achieve if she wanted to and that we didn't need to worry about it. Given that she more than met the low-ball qualifications for a GT id in our district (95th percentile in any one area on ability and achievement) and was not doing well emotionally, socially, or academically at that point, I was disinclined to take the opinion of someone who had only met my dd for a few days vs. my knowing her for years. We, too, got the impression that the psych thought we were hothousing dd to get the type of achievement she was seeing and that her emotional difficulties were due to too much pressure from us. Actually, I believe something that strongly implied that was also written into the report along with a comment that negatively compared her to her older HG sister (a note of her sister being more able in the pysch's mind, which I'm not sure is actually true and dd did score higher than her sister in some areas).

Point being, you know your child best. If homeschooling is viable for you, I think that is a wonderful option to offer your dd a much better fit academically and you should have plenty of opportunity for her to socialize with other kids through hsing groups. I wouldn't worry about overly emphasizing academics. You are her mom. You know best what she needs and wants and she'll let you know if you're off in the wrong direction b/c you'll see it in her behavior.

We, for the most part, took what helped dd from that report and ignored the rest. Dd is in public school right now and she was placed in the GT reading class and we pushed for more in math as well. She subject accelerated in math this year and her achievement scores in math are stablizing with an upward trend. Reading achievement is still pretty erratic but not as erratic as in earlier years (I say this without seeing this year's CSAP/state NCLB tests, so I hope that I'm not lying). She did pass the 7th grade pre-test in math and the other tests to continue subject acceleration of some sort in 6th grade next year. We're not yet sure if it will be the more accelerated 7th grade math or the more std level 7th grade math but we're fine with either and want her where she'll do the best. She's also doing a lot better emotionally this year. Going against the psych's recommendations and pushing for more accelerated academic placement was the best thing we've done in terms of forcing us to ferret out what was going on with dd and placing her somewhere where she can develop both academically and emotionally.