Hi! I haven't been on this forum in so long! Originally I came for my older daughter who is now finishing up middle school. We home schooled when she found school was boring her. Once we found a great school, we sent her and it has been roses since!

I am coming back to the forum with questions regarding my now, 10 year old. She was discovered to be 2E in 4th grade in public school. She was given the WISC and WJIII...

She scored very high in verbal on WISC - 137 and invited to the gifted program.
She scored 127 on Perceptual, Working memory 110 and processing speed was 81 and given and IEP with pullouts and accommodations.

She was also given the processing speed portion of the WJ and received and 80, confirming the issue. She scored in the 7th percentile for decision making.

For the WJ achievement test she scored very high or superior on most items except for only average in math fluency and another fluency, I can't remember which.

She was early to read and reads always. She was late to write fluently (reversing letters and numbers still in 5th), but has nice penmanship.

Suddenly, her writing seems to be catching up with her classmates. Very recently she has been completing assignments within the given time and recently took the OLSAT for admission to a private school.

She was given accommodations of extra time, but finished 12 minutes early and did not use extra time. She scored a 132 with verbal and nonverbal being within two points of eachother.

She scored average on her state testing. 3's on a scale of one to 4 with some jumps to 4's for particular things..like reasoning.

ANYWAY! My question IS: Can you fix slow precessing? She was not diagnosed as dyslexic, although I thought her to be. She clearly is not now that she is in fifth grade. She can finally do long division without making mistakes. She is writing quickly, (though she writes bottom to top formations). She was found twice to not need OT, but still struggles with ties and organizing her space.

She has had pull-out with math facts and organization with writing and organizing time. The public school seems to be very on top of things.

Her special ed teacher called yesterday to say that she believed my daughter is brilliant and she becomes so involved in the "research" phase and the learning phase that she doesn't get started on the project. She believes that her only problem is organization. She was calling to let me know that my daughter had THREE essays to write that evening that she hadn't finished in class.

If she learns to organize her thoughts, can I expect her processing speed to go up?

I have a hard time believing that a kid with a processing speed in the 9th percentile would manage to get so much done.

Do you have any thoughts or questions I should ask? We would like to send her to a private school, but the workload is very tough. I am trying to figure out if the extra stimulation and deep discussions at this school will inspire her or become too much. It seems so right for her. Harkness Table discussions, debate club, reverse classrooms, 90 minute classes, three a day.

But how can a kid in the 9th percentile for speed, make it in a rigorous place like that. How should I go about thinking about this. Will she need my help through middle school? She is a perfectionist and doesn't like help. She tends to avoid anything she sees as too hard, but she will never admit it is too hard. She is extremely creative. She loves to fold paper and packing tape is her favorite gift. She reads non-stop. She is trying to learn to code. She seems to have to work extra hard because she is reversing a lot of code.

Thanks in advance.

I believe that one can train the brain to get out of the slow processing speed trap (brain plasticity). But, I am not sure if it is scientifically proven. I am interested in this topic because I have a child who is really slow in decision making and cannot make up his mind as to which shoe to wear, which pencil to use etc. He also takes forever in word problems and creative writing. I look forward to what others say.

My experience with this is that processing speed deficits get compounded by 'anxiety' in the given area of slowness, ex: computation. So sometimes a child who is slow can be VERY slow and sometimes just ok - if they don't feel put on the spot.

I myself was considered pretty slow on math facts and consequently grew to kind of hate being asked to do math in my head...although I ended up doing great in math classes where speed of computation was not an issue.

I think my son has gone through/is going through nearly the same: very slow to learn math facts but now in h.s., doing super in geometry. Is he faster? probably a bit. He was tested when he was 8 and again when he was 14, and both times scored < 10th percentile.

Am I faster? well I never got tested as a child for processing speed, but I just did get tested and am at least now above average. So maybe folks grow out of it, but I think it takes ...a while.

reversing a lot of code might be a red flag - what is the 2nd e? does it explain that issue?

I would love to figure out the reversing thing. 2e was given for gifted with slow processing. 9th percentile for processing and 99th for verbal reasoning.

Is this something she can just learn to live with and continue to be in advanced classes or is it something that will be a problem for the rest of her life. Should I look more into what is causing the slow processing speed?

She went through vision therapy twice. Might be something there I suppose.

She isn't very cooperative with the eye exercises at home so I stopped paying for the therapy.

Would it be worth testing again to see if it has improved? Maybe just the Wookcock Johnoson Cognitive test for processing speed since it is quick and easy.

Is it something the school would do a year after the first one to see if she has improved or is that unheard of.


Math facts, spelling and reversing seem to be her areas of weakness. Her writing is coming along nicely and she's pretty good at math, especially word problems.


She has stopped reversing letters and numbers for the most part, at 10. Maybe it was holding her back which is why her writing is coming along finally. I'm not sure what to think, but she is super creative and super smart. I wish there was a magic wand. I figure that even if I did discover a REASON her speed was slow, what are the chances it could be fixed. So why bother.

I don't think it's something you can grow out of exactly. I do think slow processing it is something you can learn to work with and compensate for so it's less obvious.

I say this about my DD and her LD's.. She is 21 and graduating from college this spring. Her LD's haven't disappeared but she has learned (through hard work) how to function despite her LD's. Knowing exactly what her LS's were helped us to teach her what she needs to do to write that college paper and/or read that text book. That she can't emulate other students and try and bang out an essay not matter how short in a evening.

Why are you anxious to have her processing skills improve on WJC? Those scores help you & her teachers understand where she struggles. My son has low processing & WM and I found was that some grades have been harder than others. Just because things seems better today, might not mean that when the next grade levels up (requires drastically new skills) this may come to play again. Often grades like 4th, 6th or 7th, and 9th are level up times where teachers expect higher levels of EF & drastically more seatwork or homework.

Thank you bluemagic. Glad to hear that they can learn to manage the disability. I don't want her to have to deal with this for the rest of her life. Since I see a glimmer of hope recently, I am clinging to the belief that she can "even out," "grow out of it," or make it just go away. If she tested in the normal range, I could believe that she will not have to struggle her whole life. I know the scores help the teachers understand her, but I'd rather there be nothing to understand.

To keep my hope alive, I thought I'd ask here if there is anything that causes slow processing scores that one can grow out of. If there is, I will choose to cross my fingers for her.

I did not post this earlier, but there is some belief that learning a musical instrument on a regular basis will help improve the nerve connections across several parts of the brain and improve the brain efficiency - because music learning involves coordination between various parts of the body, using the feet, eyes, ears, memory while keeping up with a metronome or an orchestra. The corpus callosum which is the bridge between both the left and right sides of the brain is strengthened. This supposedly helps to increase processing speed eventually.

Another thing that I have heard is that regular cardio exercise increases brain functioning. I am going to hear Dr John Ratey speak on this topic soon and I look forward to learning about this.
http://sparkinglife.org/page/add-adhd

One more thing, you say is I don't want her to struggle with this her whole life. She probably won't. Some skills like low processing & working memory make certain things difficult, like taking a timed math test but not others like solving that challenge math question. It's why many people use GAI for gifted identification because many gifted kids lag in this area. (It's very common among gifted kids.) Classrooms can be more difficult that many jobs because teachers these days wants students to learn to do everything quickly. But not everything in life requires working quickly, sometimes it's more important to think long & hard. We are all have our differences and IMO it's good that we have a world of people with different strengths & interests.

The sad part is the things my DS17 has decided he didn't like that I only later realized was because of his slower processing. I could never get him interested in chess because when I tried group chess classes/groups they all used chess clocks. It's not that chess that was uninteresting it was having to play chess against a timer that he didn't like.

As to the learning an musical instrument helping. My son plays a musical instrument. He loves it, has played clarinet for 7 years. Plays 1st chair in the "jv" H.S. band. He is in marching band and it's been wonderful for him. Has it helped his processing speed? I have no idea because I never had him tested till H.S. & didn't even really understand that was one of his issues. Has he learned a lot from being in music. Yes.. defiantly and I'd recommend it in a heart beat if your child has any interest. But I'm not holding out that it's going to improve his processing speed.

Wow spaghetti! This sounds EXACTLY like my daughter. Even the crazy high reading fluency! How can you have such fast reading with such slow processing. I wish I understood more. And she was VERY bad 2nd, 3rd, and 4th, but now suddenly in 5th grade she seems to be improving, like you said and isn't even using extra time. And interesting that you had it rechecked and it remained the same. This gives me a lot of answers and confirms to me that I will just never understand this.

As far as the music goes, she tool group violin in 2nd grade and started up with school lessons in 4th grade. In second grade she played BEAUTIFULLY! Once she began reading notes it was all over. She couldn't do it and she didn't want to play anymore.

I don't know if it is due to slow processing or her tendency to flip symbols. I had her in ballet, thinking it would help the whole flipping and processing thing, but again, it was very hard for her.

She messes up her right and left and uses her left side to jump and turn. In ballet they start with the right side. All of this combined with the (fast for her) pace was a disaster. She has been doing a jazz class that she enjoys even if she is always a beat behind.

She likes swimming and is working on her strokes to join the swim team.

Her overall favorite thing in life it building things. She uses tape and cardboard and paper. I feel like if we could find just one thing she is really good at it would do wonders for her self esteem.

She WAS selected for a selective after school art program. She enjoys art, and is good at it, but doesn't seem to have the passion you need to sustain the interest long term.

I am looking for a robotics group for her..I think that might do it.

We thank you so much for your input. I will look into seeing if she would accept maybe private lessons for violin. Then they can go at her speed.

How old is she 5th grade and what 10 or 11. I know it seems more common these days but MANY kids don't find their passion at this age. It's OK to try a lot of things to figure out what that is IMO. I've known many a kid that seemed passionate about something at this age and then dislike it in H.S. Not everything they like at this age sticks. My older daughter is graduating college with BFA this spring. At 5th grade I would have said she like theater not art. She didn't show at lot of passion for it in 5th grade either. (Enjoyed it but not passion) Don't discount lack of enthusiasm for something at this age not being interested enough as a teenager or adult.

I hope the swimming goes well for her. As for not telling left from right. Is she ambidextrous? My husband has problems with left & right and it's because he is ambidextrous and therefore doesn't have that strong sense of understanding what is right.

The above description sounds like me as well. I can read crazy fast & could as a kid. But I get tongue tied in a fast paced discussion and didn't like timed tests either. Makes me wonder how much I'm alike my kid.

Interesting thoughts bluemagic. We live it a very educated area and it seems every kid has a passion and gift is one area or another. Parents shell out all sorts of money for private instruction so their kids can be competitive. My 13 year old is very passionate about ballet. We do tend to pay a lot for this, but since she is so passionate about it, we feel the expense is justified.

I think it is easy to lose sight of the fact that she is infact 10 years old. She has a lot of things to try and it's an exciting time with low pressure to explore.

As far as ambidextrous. I think I'm not clear on the actual definition. She was not crossing her midline at age 5 and had not chosen a dominant hand. She was right handed by first grade though.

I fixed her pencil grip the summer before first grade and it is beautiful now! The school was not worried but she had a four finger grasp!

She has always been left legged and a lefty when she was in gymnastics...another thing she was very good at, but didn't like the pressure.

She is left-eyed and turns left in dancing.

BUT she is right handed. Maybe this is part of her issues. Might it also have something to do with reversing letters, numbers? This part of her is a mystery to me. She worked sooo incredibly hard to fix this. I can see her pausing before b's and d's still to think.

No wonder her processing is slow. Imagine you had to consider all the directions of a letter each time your wrote it?

I wish I understood this more. I don't know any other children her age who do this. The school is not addressing it. They encourage her to type.

Your stories are very helpful to me.

I go from having so much hope for her and thinking she will outgrow the struggle to feeling like maybe we should just give her the easy classes in school and not worry about it.

But in the end it sounds like it is a balance and she may need support sometimes and teaching her to ask for help and advocate for herself may be the best thing I can do her for her at this point.

sydness, I am personally not a fan of the term "slow processing speed". What you have in terms of quantifiable data for your dd (that is listed here) are significantly lower scores on some IQ subtests relative to others, and fluency achievement subtests. Each of these subtests require extremely discrete tasks, and when compared to other subtests can give wonderful insight into a child's strengths and challenges - but they don't paint the full picture, and looking at them without looking at academic performance, developmental history, and additional tests to determine why the scores are low really leaves you without much information. It sounds like you've had your dd tested through school (I apologize if I'm assuming this incorrectly - it's just a guess based on what you'r written). It's important to realize that when a school tests they are looking at impact on academics only, in many cases they are not going to recommend therapies/accommodations/remediation/etc for students who don't fall below a very low bar, and they are limited to giving the tests they need to prove/disprove a student qualifies for services. When they have that answer, they don't need to dive further to understand the *why*, the full life impact of a potential disability, or give you a long-term plan and insight into needs/impact, or make recommendations for private therapies. Schools are also often severely budget constrained and this impacts not only services but access to testing. Please know I'm not knocking school testing and schools in general in *any* way, just pointing out that you probably don't have all the answers that would be helpful in understanding what's going on with your dd.

If your dd had a neuropsych eval, chances are she would have had additional testing to determine why there is a relative dip in processing speed and fluency tests. Processing speed on the WISC and the related subtests on the WJ-III Cognitive Abilities test can be relatively low for a huge number of reasons. Things that neuropsychs typically would do in addition to those tests include an extended parent interview which would discuss things such as the things you've mentioned that look like ambidexterity. What you mention *might* be true ambidexterity, or it *might* mean your dd has never developed a right-vs-left dominance, and those are two slightly different things. The neuropsych would also run a test such as Beery VMI to determine if the dip in processing speed might be due to either visual motor challenges or fine motor challenges. He/she would also most likely be noting how your dd writes as she works through the testing, checking not only pencil grip but how she forms letters, are her efforts fluid and easy or slow and requiring a lot of mental effort.

I have no idea what's really up with your dd, but there are many things in your OP and replies that sound quite a bit like my ds, who has diagnoses of Developmental Coordination Disorder (Dyspraxia) and dysgraphia. In no way shape or form do I consider him to have "slow processing speed", so I'm going to list the similarities not as a suggestion that your dd has the same diagnoses, but as an example of why it's not always a good idea (from my perspective) to extrapolate that a person has "slow processing speed" to mean anything more than they have relatively low scores on "processing speed subtests". Hope that makes sense! When I read the term "slow processing speed" in a broader sense it seems ambiguous and suggests that it's thought the person is, in general, slow in a cognitive sense, which is not the case for many of the kids who have relatively slow ps subtest scores. Dysgraphia and DCD cause my ds to *write* slow, prevented him from developing automaticity of handwriting, cause awkward and slow movements in some respects, and cause him to appear to respond slowly in some instances. Some sports are beyond his coordination in huge ways, but he enjoys cross-country running, skiing, and riding bikes. He does not have a right-left-hand dominance, but he has always appeared to be right-handed. He was never interested in ballet, but his sisters both took ballet so I've sat through many a ballet class and I can promise you that thanks to that lack of hand dominance combined with some spatial awareness challenges due to DCD, he would have been able to participate but looked like the clumsy kid who just couldn't "get it"

So - I'm guessing you're wondering, will he ever "grow out of it"? No. But that's ok - DCD/dysgraphia are a piece of who he is but they don't define him. And they really aren't all that terribly challenging in many ways because... it's easy to *accommodate* for so much of it. The whole world we live in uses a keyboard for communication, rarely handwriting outside of school. DS and many dysgraphics start keyboarding as soon as they are diagnosed to bypass handwriting challenges. It doesn't mean they aren't taught how to use handwriting, it just means that it's acknowledged that it isn't a reliable form of communication for them. DS actually doesn't type all that quickly either due to his DCD, but it's not a struggle.

Do children grow out of dysgraphia? Not really, but it's not uncommon to see developmental growth around the same time puberty hits. The gotcha there is - neurotypical kids are also having developmental growth spurts around the same time, so no matter how much better things might seem for your individual child, it doesn't necessarily mean a child has "caught up" or that they aren't still impacted by dysgraphia. It's important to remember with dysgraphia in particular that even when handwriting looks great and grip is ok etc, the act of handwriting takes up most of a person's working memory, leaving little in-the-moment brain power left over for thinking about punctuation, grammar, or most importantly *ideas* and communicating full knowledge.

There are a few things that dysgraphic kids do tend to "outgrow" - they will eventually stop reversing letters, as your dd has, same thing happened with my ds, just very late compared to other children. He made a ton of math errors around 4-5 grade when he was first tasked with doing long division, large number multiplication, and multi-step math problems due to switching numbers and making frequent copy mistakes. He still does make some of those errors, but they've decreased dramatically in the past few years. You wrote:


That is not "slow processing speed" - that is classic dysgraphia.


Encouraging her to type is actually a good thing - it will give her a means to share her knowledge without struggling through lack of automaticity in handwriting. If she's dysgraphic, automaticity of handwriting is something she will likely never truly develop, and giving her handwriting accommodations is a good thing - it will enable her to fully participate in classes that are matched appropriately to her cognitive strengths. Accommodations aren't an "out", they are an aide. Would you send your dd to school without glasses or contact lenses if she had eyesight issues?


I disagree with this (please know I mean this with no disrespect!) - I think the best thing you can do for your dd right now is to get a proper diagnosis, understand what's really going on, and *you* (paired with professionals) figure out what she needs in terms of accommodations and remediation for the short term as well as put together a general idea of what she'll need for the longer term and for life, not just school. She needs you, at this age, to do that step for her, and in that way you'll be giving her the tools she needs to become her own best advocate as she matures. Teaching her to ask for help and to advocate for herself is important, but she's still just a kid and I think, at this point, neither of you really understands fully what's going on - and that's the first step to take, and it's a step that the adults in her life need to undertake.

Best wishes,

polarbear

OH Polerbear, that's all heavy..hitting a little hard..I remember you from years ago when I was on here. How is the ballet going? My big kid is very serious now and thinking about going to conservatory of some sort. I am not letting her because the poor academics.

You are correct. The school was very generous in testing her, because they thought she showed signs of a LD.

She types slow.

She can't spell.

She reads crazy well, fast and deep.

Her special ed teacher told me she is brilliant and she gets so caught up in the thinking/research part of the assignment and gaining knowledge far beyond the assignment but doesn't get to putting it on paper.

She assures me that she is capable.

I can't help but want to believe her.

There has always been something very odd about her coordination.

She can tie her shoes..she knows the steps, but at 10, still cant do it quick enough. She had the OT look at her. They noted odd approach to writing letters, bottom to top, but functional. Her penmanship score came in as a much older child.

The gave her some standardized OT test and she passed. Twice.

She could ride a bike no training wheels at 4.

She has amazing accuracy when pitching.

She folds beautiful paper products.

She had beautiful cursive when copying.

But functionally, she cannot write. Her teacher prints out the homework for the week for her because she cannot copy it quickly enough off the board. When she does write it, you can't read it.

The odd part is that she carries too many things. When she doesn't need to. Like she forgets to put one thing down before picking up another. Even if holding the object interferes with what she is trying to do. She always forgets to put it down. I have to tell her and then she puts it down. She is known in our family for being amazing for pouring milk to the very top of the glass without it overflowing. But then she leaves her glass in front of her plate and has to reach around the glass to access her food..even when the glass is empty!

I will talk to my husband. I will contact a neuropsych.. I hate to put her through it. She is just getting over her LD diagnosis. It threw her for a loop. Messed with her big time. She was invited to the gifted program and she is not thriving. She said that there is not enough structure in the class. She doesn't understand what she is supposed to be working on.

I sooo appreciate you thoughtful response. Your boy sounds similar to my girl. It makes me very sad for them. These smart little brilliant minds - and people look at them sideways for being slow, or whatever.

One area she seems to never need help is Science..

I'll look into getting more answers. You say that slow processing is a symptom? Not an answer.

Ah. That would be the "all gifted kids are motivated self learners with great executive function" theory.

Ah. That would be the "all gifted kids are motivated self learners with great executive function" theory.

Echoing polarbear: processing speed is a symptom, not necessarily a specific condition. Many different factors affect processing speed.

In your DD's case, her processing speed is not motor-dependent (per low decision speed score on the WJ; processing speed test with minimal motor demands). That score also does not reflect reversal errors, as the images used are not symbolic. With what you describe of the teacher's report, and behaviors like picking up too many objects and reaching around the glass, I would suspect that the direction to look on a neuropsych would be executive functions, as many of these are related to planning and organization, and probably either encoding or retrieval as well (with low math fact fluency, and her early history of reading delays).

What math fact fluency, early reading, handwriting, spelling, and reading music all have in common is that they are arbitrary symbolic systems which one must master before one is able to engage in meaningful, relevant activities with them. (I suspect that she has not mastered handwriting, in spite of its lovely appearance, because her actual application of handwriting is so much poorer than when demonstrating the skill in untimed isolation.)

She has exceptional reading fluency now, most likely, because she finally acquired enough reading vocabulary (whether by sight, or by reaching automaticity with orthographic mapping/phonetic decoding) not to have to work out each word as she is reading it. I wouldn't be so sure that she is not a very well compensated dyslexic. You note that spelling is one of her primary weaknesses. That is very telling. If she is a compensated (stealth) dyslexic, she will probably need explicit instruction in spelling in order to close the gap between her reading and writing vocabulary.

To your original question: whether her processing speed will improve/normalize over the long-term on formal testing depends on why it is low to begin with. It also isn't nearly as important as whether she can learn accommodations such that she is able to reach a point in her life where it is not an obstacle to achieving her happiness or accomplishing her goals. The answer to the first is unclear. The answer to the second is yes, but it will be easier to attain if she has a clear understanding of her personal profile.

Yes. I'm seeing I need to look into this as much as I don't want to. She was not a late reader. She was a very early reader, but with tracking and convergence issues, which once fixed went to reading Junie b. jones books in Kindergarten all seven Harry Potter in first grade. I still considered her to have dyslexic symptoms, but could not bring myself to demand testing when she is in the percentile for reading fluency and comprehension.

Knowing that should I continue to investigate this? They briefly looked into executive function in second grade. They had her build a tower. There was a tower already built and then they gave her a box of blocks to recreate the tower. They watched her process. The OT said that one of the blocks did not come out of the box when she dumped it and my daughter knew right away that there was a block missing, even before the OT and that she built it very very quickly. She did say that her original approach was off, but she always corrected it. Does that rule out Executive Function.

She seems to have every issue I read about until she is tested and blows the test out of the water. Why would she score in the 98 percentile on an OLSAT without extra time with slow processing. My older daughter scored in the 97th percentile and did not finish the test with NO LD (though not tested, just pretty obvious). So many questions!

I will look into finding answers. You are all so very helpful!

Thank you

The additional information about tracking and convergence does clarify her reading situation. However, her spelling gap still suggests compensated dyslexia.

The block-building exercise done by the OT does not rule out EF deficits, firstly, because it was a very limited, non-standardized sample (mainly of visual-spatial problem-solving), incidentally addressing aspects of planning ability, not a comprehensive measure of EF, which consists of several distinct dimensions. Oh, and secondly, because OTs are generally not qualified to conduct comprehensive assessments of EF. So actually, it says very little one way or the other about her executive functions.

For good EF evaluation, better assessment instruments might include the D-KEFS or NEPSY-II, WRAML-2, RCFT, or rating scales like the BRIEF-2 or CEFI. And generally, it would be conducted by a psychologist (neuro, clinical, or school).

On the OLSAT, I am not all that surprised that she was able to complete it quickly, as it is entirely multiple choice, which takes away most of the fine-motor speed and retrieval efficiency factors that may affect processing speed. In fact, if we postulate that her processing speed is a signal of deficits in planning, organization, and retrieval fluency, the format of the OLSAT essentially accommodates for most of them, as no new responses must be generated. Planning and organization are accounted for in the highly-structured, standardized format, and retrieval is supported by the multiple-choice format, which allows for recruiting recognition skills to support free recall skills. Plays to her strengths, and masks her weaknesses, in other words.

Ambidextrous is not something to be worried about, it's fairly rare and quite special IMO. But it might explain not being able to understand left-from-right easily. My husband is ambidextrous yet appears as if he is right handed since default in our society is to teach kids to do things right handed. We live in a right handed world. Just because she writes with her right hand doesn't mean she isn't ambidextrous. In fact your description of her being left-footed makes me think she probably is. What my husband can do that I CAN NOT (broke my thumb and was so frustrated for 2 months because I couldn't write) is while he uses he right most of the time he can quickly come up to speed doing things with his left. Basically he can learn to use either hand and isn't inherently "handed". He can write beautifully with both hands, eat comfortably with either, etc. And what I can do is instantly tell which is my right hand because I just "know" which is my dominate hand.

I also live in a very educated area and although it may SEEM like every kids has a passion by 10. This is not necessarily true. My kids are 21 & 17 and they have had friends. I've seen these passions come & go. I've seen kids which passions at this age become bored and move onto other things in H.S. And I've seen kids become passionate bout things in H.S. It's OK for a kid not to have a passion as a child IMO. And I've seen kids who's parents have dumped tons of $$ into something like sports, ballet, or other activity give it up in a fit of disgust and frustration in H.S. (Or after H.S.) There is a lot of pressure on kids to stay in activities their parents have dumped lots of money into. And not to discourage you I've also seen kids who stay committed and still love their activity well into adulthood. You just have to go into it with the right attitude. I don't regret my daughter taking 5 years of theater classes and going into photography. Those classes were fun & good for her.

P.S. Comment on the posts after this. My DS got a 99% on the OLSAT in 3rd grade. He was tested with low processing speed in H.S. Certain types of tests he has very little problem with while others really bog him down.

An additional comment on handedness: your description actually sounds more like it may be mixed dominance, as distinct from ambidexterity, both of which some resesarchers believe may be related to neurological conditions, such as learning disabilities and ADHD.

Sydness - thanks for posting! Your ds sounds similar to my ds10. He's been tested in the 98-99.9% too, but has visual deficits (convergence insufficiency and others), has dyspraxia, SPD, issues with handwriting (possibly dysgraphia), etc. - which has presented a conundrum. He was misdiagnosed with PDD and ADHD.

Ds, too, read early, but initially through sight and whole language. He struggled with phonics until I got him to memorize it with humorous cartoons. He might have stealth dyslexia but if so it has flown under the radar on various tests (same could be said for the dysgraphia and possibly dyscalculia as well). Some of your dh's issues may be related to dyscalculia too.

Interesting about handedness because my ds was completely lopsided, abnormally early right handed abnormally due to some physical conditions from birth, which also affected his neurological wiring. Similar to others, though, dh is right handed but kicks with his left foot. My sister is a leftie. Ds10, Dh, and my sister were all breech babies, though dh flipped in the last 24 hrs. I don't doubt there's a similar situation in terms of neurological wiring with preemies or other babies.

I often think the development in utero can greatly affect the neurological wiring, particularly with my ds and sister, that cannot be fundamentally changed so to speak. It becomes more a management issue and a matter of ways to compensate. OT, vision therapy, neurofeedback, and other therapies can help a lot; my son has had all of them for years on end.

At this point, I'd suggest having a behavioral/developmental optometrist assess your dh if you haven't done so already and possibly an OT. Both could help your dh manage and function more smoothly and make life more manageable and less frustrating. I think you may see more results with vision therapy if it's warranted; the one drawback would be that it's often expensive and not covered by insurance. But even with vision therapy or neurofeedback, there's a limit to what can be accomplished and you'd have to set parameters on expectations, goals, and objectives.

From a long lens perspective, I'd say look at various famous 2e people (celebrities, etc. - admittedly a lot of them will probably men though) to see how they've succeeded despite their limitations or special needs to alleviate anxieties. Google - famous people with dyspraxia or famous people with dyslexia. You'll find everyone from Daniel Ratcliffe (ie. Harry Potter) to Henry Winkler.

Take heart. While there are definitely disadvantages to dyspraxia, dyslexia, dyscalculia, etc. (and I do have empathy and sympathy as a 2e parent!), there is a flip side as well to these diagnoses and conditions. Some believe that it helps to enhance creativity and would not still be in the proverbial gene pool if there was not some evolutionary advantage to having them. I think the trick with being a parent here is to concentrate on the strengths and to diminish or find ways around the deficits and weaknesses, which isn't always easy or fun.

That's wonderful that your dd has continued her ballet and is serious about it! y dds both gave up ballet - older dd discovered tap and other dance which had a lot of motion and she preferred it, ballet didn't work for her, she needed something that allowed much more energy release and motion Youngest dd had been serious about it but then discovered gymnastics and that is now her life. My older dd is one of those kids who's not incredibly passionate about anything (although she does have sports she loves), younger dd is just simply quite obsessed about gymnastics and it's tough dealing with the amount of time it takes away from everything else, academics in particular.


I don't find myself feeling sad for my ds at all - he has a very happy life and he's able to participate in most things he really wants to. He's in a rigorous academic program in hs with other gifted students - he has accommodations but they don't define him or his day. He isn't going to be a prodigy in sports or music but he participates in both and enjoys both. He may never "get over" DCD/etc but he has grown in the things that I think matter most to *all* of my children in life - he's kind, he's got a great sense of humor, and he has self confidence. That last part is *huge* - he struggled with self-confidence for a long time. I think we were very lucky in that we were able to find a school for him for middle school where he was accepted for who he is (the challenged part and the braniac part), and where he had teachers who were interested as much in supporting growth in character as they were in academic knowledge.

It's tough seeing our kids struggle with challenges, but those same challenges can also eventually lead to tremendous strengths. Hang in there - things will be ok! And you're doing exactly what you need to do - thinking through the questions, figuring out the path ahead. Your dd will be fine

Best wishes,

polarbear

Thank you all for your words of encouragement.

Weakness - Not crossing midline

Strength - the ability to raise each eyebrow independently..and make people think you are cool.

URGH - not crossing midline that was the bane of my existence for years and years!!! That's cross lateralization of the brain or lateralization of brain function. Like I and others have said, it's the neurologically wiring. You can improve or enhance it but you cannot put more bits in or connect A to B when the neural pathway goes from say H to P instead.

Ds was born with something like hemiplegia so he didn't have 'normal' use of the left side of his body. Unfortunately for me, this enhanced ds's cognitive abilities in ways I never expected/anticipated and with whatever ds already genetically inherited. Ds learned to compensate extremely well within nanoseconds since he was a baby and this has created a real roller coaster experience with him as a result.

Swimming and/or water therapy can help with lateralization of the brain. Ds had water therapy at 6.5 years old. No one said ds had to be an athlete or suddenly be coordinated, but the ability to swim and be in water therapy was non-negotiable. A lot of water therapy involved making the equivalent movements of snow angels in the water.

Swimming requires the use of both legs and arms and core body muscles. Plus, being the water is more energy efficient and provides more buoyancy or less chance to fudge using both sides of the body and brain. Now at 10, and after many years of getting ds to swim, ds actually enjoys swimming. So there is hope.

Raising both eyebrows independently is a pretty cool trick. How many people could do that? I'm sure there's other cool stuff your dd can do too. Start making a list of them.

Keep focusing on the strengths and don't try to drown in the weaknesses, I say. Try to avoid staring at that midline rabbit hole! Oy vey. Better to flip the negative into something more positive and how the wacky neurological wiring may be a real boon for creativity and life in general. Make light of it and see the funny side of the topsy turvy situation.

hm, we are still struggling with this for our dd, who has been through vision therapy 1x, and is now back to doing computer based vision therapy to get the last small bit of conversion issues dealt with - it is only 7 minutes a day so , so far, that makes it bearable.
ALso found out my son had some convergence issues that had been previously undiagnosed, very glad to get it identified before starting back at the regular school. He is still not a reading speed-demon, but at least not falling behind.

This vision stuff is sneaky!!

cdfox! The world needs more of you. Making light of the situation is something I love to try to do..:)

She has a double uvula. She is trying to operate each one separately. Imagine she manages that? lol

She swims 4 days a week. I just bought her private lessons because to breathe, she rotates completely onto her back and the rotates her whole body back into the water. It's so funny. Sometimes she after she is on her back to breathe, she continue the way she was turning and does a complete rotation.

It's ridiculous!

There, making light of the situation right?

yes, agree with this, however still is not always going to be fixable, but easier perhaps to deal with when and if the underlying cause is known. (Or causes)
Very best of luck to you.

Chris1234,

Interested in computer based vision therapy. She went it for another round of VP and finished the first section, but there was so much homework and she wouldn't do it.

So I stopped paying.

They also took away her prism glasses, which she wouldn't wear anyway.

She has distance glasses now, and she wore them all the time and lost them.

I'm really not sure how much I believe those vision therapy people who said that the reason she couldn't see distance was because she was over focusing close up causing her eyes to weaken. But she clearly needed the distance glasses 6 months later.

It's all so confusing! I will let you know if she gets that double uvula working independently!

Just thought I'd pipe in that young kids can work really hard to focus, and it can lead to weakness in one or both eyes (things like strabismus and amblyopia). When you give them glasses, they finally don't have to work so hard, and after a while, you might think the eyes have gotten weaker because they can't really see without the glasses any more. But what really happened is the eyes aren't having to work so hard, they let the glasses do some of the work. Hopefully it means fewer headaches from eye strain, and no mis-aligned eyes.

Just wanted to reassure you that wearing glasses likely didn't make her eyes weaker. At least, that is what the several doctors (both ophthalmologists and optometrists) I have dealt with for myself and my kids have said over the years. :-) My DD actually wore far-sighted glasses for a year at age 6, and then didn't need them any more -- developmentally her eyes strengthened. DS, however, has a very strong far-sighted Rx, and has since he was just over a year old.

Not completely ridiculous to rotate on your back to breathe. One popular learn to swim technique when my daughter was young was to first teach them to roll on their back. Only when they had that down pat move them to only rotating far enough to breathe. The claim was this taught better habits & provided a pool safe kid younger then kids who try and yank their heads straight up.

It is very expensive for the office therapy, it just about killed us, lol. but dd did most of the work, or we also might have stopped (what would have been the point, right?)

the computer program was about $75 all together, so very very affordable, comparatively - we are glad that is all she needs this round. It is called CVS, if you want to talk to your dr about it - from 'home therapy systems'. My ds did the program, as a self-sufficient fellow of age 15, he hammered right through it in the prescribed time and now his vision is better than normal (just slightly better). So it can be done.

but you do need a code from the dr. to buy it, so chat with them, if you think she is ready for it/needs it.
good luck on getting the eyes working together and the uvulas working separately!