Since Grinity Asked�.

Executive Function and Middle School:

Let me start by saying that I fully understand and support the need for people with great executive function skills. In my daily job, I am the back office support for 5 sales people. My job is to make sure all the t�s get crossed and all the i�s dotted and everything works out nicely in our little world. I am not naturally organized or a detail oriented person. My teachers would scratch their heads to see me in this job. So from personal experience, I know it is possible to train myself to manage executive function skills.

However, I am not convinced at this time that my son will be able to master these skills before he gives up on himself. Middle School is a tumultuous time. Lockers, hormones, voice changes, multiple teachers not to mention the changes in social interactions are enough to make my mind spin. I do not know how the teachers and students survive. My son could probably be nicknamed the Pigpen of Paper trailing a field of paper debris from class to class. His once neatly organized class binders not are broken (and replaced, and broken, and replaced�) The papers are crumpled, jumbled and torn if not lost in the ether of the Middle School. Homework assignments that his father and I know were in the correct binder and in his backpack before he left for school never reach the teachers. He has detention for missing homework and A�s for tests and quizzes.

This child of ours has an IEP that says he needs help with organization and that he cannot at this time demonstrate the same level of executive function as is expected for his age. We asked that he be allowed to carry 1 binder instead of 6 to class each day. The core teacher team felt this was enabling his problems and that they hoped he would want to be like the rest of the students. DS is articulate and charming. He is socially pretty darn well adjusted for what he has been through in his life. DS has no time sense, cannot recall where his shoes (substitute anything mundane item) are. Remember to brush his teeth, wash his face or comb his hair. He really can�t remember where he put his homework even when it is in the same spot in his folder everyday.

His father and I try to make him understand that doing his homework is not enough. Turning it in is required to follow the rules and earn the credit. We all know that for the most part the homework is not required for learning the material. BUT, it is required as part of his job at school. He tries. He tries really hard! But, the Social Studies binder explodes on the way to class. He grabs the papers in a rush not to get in trouble for being late to class again. By the time he gets to class, the papers that aren�t missing, are jumbled, crumpled and in a mess. DS frantically goes through them hoping that this time he can find the homework assignment before the bell rings so he doesn�t get detention for missing another homework deadline.

This child of ours learns things almost before the teacher starts talking. He adds in great discussion dialog and his eyes gleam as his mind races to make connections between ideas and concepts. The challenge of gathering, processing and connecting information makes him come alive. He remembers everything except the mundane day to day requirements.

The school is trying to teach him organization and accountability through keeping each class binder in a different format and with a homework policy that punishes the child both with a negative grade and detention (6 missed assignments across all core subjects) and removal from extracurricular activities and school assemblies (9 missed assignments across all core subjects.) In theory, it is a good policy. The negative consequences should be severe enough to get the students to turn in the homework.

In reality, my son is exhibiting many signs of stress from headaches and stomach aches every morning, to uncontrolled shaking when it is time to get on the bus. After school, he is moody, angry withdrawn and tired. Any mention of school sparks an emotional outburst. However, he does his homework without argument, puts it in the binders and into his backpack. So far this quarter he has missed 4 homework assignments. The marking period ends the end of January.

Last Spring, my husband and I went to a Diamonds in the Rough conference about gifted but executive function challenged in Washington, DC. Sitting there, we both started to really understand our child better. He is not lazy, unmotivated, challenging authority or uninterested. He is doing his best, trying hard and failing at the executive function tasks assigned by the school. I am not going to fight with DS about the missing homework. He is stressed enough, he does not need his father and I adding to it. We do have calm discussions about how he feels and what he thinks will help. We recently bought different binders that he thinks will make a difference. I don�t think they�ll help, but maybe the confidence he has that they will work will make a difference.

After several years of discussions at the school, I am tired of hearing the following:
Your son isn�t the worst we�ve ever seen, all he needs is some help (defined by setting punishments rather than support) and he�ll get his act together.
Your son is still an A student so why are you bothering us? He just needs to get organized and we�ll teach him that with our programs.
How can such a bright child not understand the classroom rules on a neat desk and turning in homework that isn�t torn and crumbled if it is turned in at all? He needs to learn to conform.
Your son is a delight to have in class if he just could keep all of his items within his personal space.
You are the problem with your son. If you would spend as much time working on getting him to follow our rules and procedures as you do on telling us he needs special treatment, he would have no problems in school.

There are 2 wishes his father and I have for our son. First that he live a long and healthy life. Second that he is content with his life and able to be a self sufficient, productive member of our society. Our challenge is how to help him get there.

If my D15 were a few years younger, I would say that she and your S were separated at birth. Lol, the "Pigpen of Paper" is a perfect description!

In our case, D was diagnosed with a non-verbal learning disability last year (9th grade). Because what was just exasperating in middle school becamse a crisis in high school, so we really dug into it from a testing perspective. There were some hints at it in earlier test results, too. Having that formal diagnosis got us a long way with teachers, and we engaged the learning specialist at our school to help as well. Admittedly, D goes to a private school that is quite responsive to these types of things.

Just this week I am weighing how involved to get in her issues with getting biology labs turned in on time... the teacher insists that they be on his desk by the start of class on the day they are due, and if a student comes in 30 seconds after the hour he doesn't give them a tardy, but he DOES mark down their assignment as late. This week I have settled for making sure when she gets out of the car in the morning that the assignment is in the correct location, and reminding her to be ON TIME to Biology, or get a pass from the choir director (who keeps them over a few minutes sometimes in the previous class). I am reluctant to do much more right now, as this teacher will be an important reference for my bio-loving kid for summer and college applications. Don't want to rock the boat if I don't have to...

I can also confirm that I was very similar, with MAJOR disorganization skills into my 20s. A boss once said to me when I was in my late 20s, "Your are really much more oganized than you appear to be from the state of your desk.". I think that portion of my brain grew in my 20s, and I am now very organized. So I am hoping that D will grow into more organization as she gets older. But realistically, I think she will probably be the classic 'absentminded professor'.

elh,

I was your son and I have your son. And you mentioned as well that your teachers would be surprised to find you in such a detail oriented/organizing type of position.
I have had many jobs requiring organization and attention to detail (think bookkeeper) while at the same time I NEVER remember to pick up milk on the way home and had to get checkbooks with duplicates since I often forgot to enter checks written.
I think you are right to back off on him. I know my son (5th grade) began to get more on top of making sure homework assignments came home and went back on time when they were told that a missed assignment was 50% one day late and no credit for day two. He understood that it would impact his grades and that mattered to him. I also set a restriction that all chores/homework had to be completed before anything electronic was turned on. Just these two very basic things have helped immensely and the best part is that he is self-motivated now.
Of course we still have the homework folder with papers spilling out and the organizational binder with the springing part halfway pulled out, cover ripped off and pages stepped on and missing but apparently nobody is grading on that! :-)

My son has ADHD and I felt how you felt when hearing about your son's disorganization. I had to hear about how he taps his pencil and sings and blurts out answers. During his parent teacher conference this year however one teacher told me that they were not terribly concerned or upset about this behavior. His science teacher said that DS replied "I am just being me." and that is how they see him and I have decided that from now on that is how I see it also.

We each have wonderful sons who are who they are and we love them. That is better than good enough. :-) When they find the thing that they really want to do in life they will make sure they have the skills to do it.

On the totally practical level - have you tried reading "the organized Student?
She describes an accordian-file alternative to binders, on page 90, that worked really well for my son in 7th and 8th grade. He did transition into regualar Binders.

http://books.google.com/books?id=Ka...v=onepage&q=accordion%20&f=false

In a nutshell,when he transitioned into binders, there was this teriffic binder with a front section that had 2 accordian files in the front. He could keep "Homework to hand in" and "homework to do" from all the classes right up together in the front.

One some level I don't think he had the hand strength to deal with opening and closing the binder rings without creating a mess.

Does the school know about the belly aches and headaches? What I found was that a single diagnosis wasn't enough to get an IEP from our local public school while the grades were high, but when the 2nd diagnosis of anxiety was added, we got more sympathy and more accomidation. This isn't the time to have a stiff upper lip.

I love your idea to not 'get one your kid' about his homework. I would praise any hint of keeping track of anything or being aware of time in any way, or turning in even a single homework. I would consider homeschool or a alternative school that cares as much about learning concepts as they do about lockstep organization. I really don't mind a school asking my kid to be organized, but I think they have an obligation to privide some 'edutainment' at the same time, if not an actual intellectual challenge.

As far as keeping DS emotionally healthy, I think one-to-one time with you and anyother adults you can round up where it's 'special time' and he can take the lead and set the pace and agenda while the adult follows along can go a long way.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

Breakaway4,
Our school has a similar policy on late homework. DS does really care, but still can't manage to get the assignments turned in. This is one of the primary causes of his stress. He is making every effort he knows to accomplish the task and still failing. I think it must be similar to the student who is studying his math facts every night but still can't pass the test.

We Study turning in your homework. For example. Dh to DS at home in the evening. OK, where is you science homework? DS checks his notebook. Right here in the homework section, Dad. OK, tomorrow morning at your locker what are you going to do? Take my Science binder to class. DH remember to make sure the homework is in it before you leave your locker. DS: OK, Dad.

Me to DS in the morning. Are all your binders in you backpack? DS: Checks and says Yes. OK, what are you going to do when you get to your locker? DS: I'll make sure I put them in order of my classes so I have them at the right times. Me: OK, have a Good Day!

My DS7 struggles with his binders as well. He lacks the hand strength to get the rings open. All of his work in all classes is supposed to be kept in his binders. We've agreed that he can bring home everything loose and as part of his homework everynight, we punch the holes and I help him put the stuff in his binders.

I would love to find binders with an accordian in front! Any idea where you got them Grins?

Grinity,
Thanks for the comments. Yes I have read "The Organized Student" We use many of the suggestions at home including the accordion style folders for a variety of needs. However, so far his school will not let him use any of the helpful suggestions because it isn't the way they do things and he needs to WANT to be organized and then it will happen. Like magic I suppose...

Yes, the school is aware that he is emotionally upset about his problems. Since he does not show the behaviors in school, the implication I have received is that he is playing on our sympathy and we are enabling him. Hence the comment that we are our child's problem.

Any chance of a change in schools?

Gurrrr. Bad School! Is there a sympathetic doctor-type you can get a note from explaining that your parenting is good but the school's system is bad?

Sometimes (but not reliably) I have been able to make headway with the schools understanding that it isn't a motivation problem this way.
Me: 'By watching my son's behavior, it looks to you like he isn't motivated, right?'
Them: 'Yes, exactly!'
Me: 'And you'd say that cash was a pretty strong incentive?'
Them: 'oh yes!'
Me: 'Well last week I offered him 20 dollars a day for each day of perfect behavior over the week. Do you want to guess how many days he earned his reward?'
Them: 'We are well aware that he forgot his homework 3 days last week.'
Me: 'Do you still think that a lack of motivation is his main problem?'
Them: ((squirm)) 'Well he has an IEP that says ....... so of course motivation isn't his main problem. Haven't we been trying to tell you that?'
Me: ((poker face)) 'Yes,of course ((smile)) tell me more.'

It sounds like the school is being pretty nasty to you, and I would love to see you have some alternatives or some other athority figure on your side, even just a friend who owns a suit. Humans are human, and if blaming something appears easier than doing something, we will often take the course of least resistience. Just don't be suprised by any sudden favorable changes and be ready to move positively when the time is right.

Love and More Love,
Grintiy

I had a conversation about executive function issues yesterday with my cousin, whose child was in G&T in elementary, but started failing classes in middle school because he forgot to turn in work. Our public school requires that all middle school kids have good executive function skills and if they don't they believe they should be held back or allowed to fail instead of being given any help. If work is not turned in, the parents are not informed until it is too late for the parent to do anything about it, unless of the course, the child is the star high school football player--different set of rules there.

I am homeschooling my 12-year-old son who has some executive function issues. He rarely remembers where he put his shoes. He kicks them off as soon as he gets the opportunity because they are so uncomfortable. He does it without thinking or maybe because he is thinking about something else when he does it. Sometimes I find his shoes in the car. It is one of the reasons we are often late. He tries to make jokes about it when he sees that I am stressed about being late, for example yesterday when we were going to be late for a 30 minute piano lesson, he said "Mom, you know that time machine I have been working on? Well, I'm sorry to tell you it doesn't work, so we will just have to deal with being late, but it will be okay. The world will not end because we are a few minutes late." Obviously, this is another issue we need to work on, but we have more important things to deal with.

At co-op classes his teachers make comments about how well behaved my son is. He wants to do well, and he wants to make the highest possible score in class. He was diagnosed with dysgraphia last year but he is making almost all A pluses on everything he writes and his composition teacher assigns a lot of writing. Some of it has to be finished in the first six minutes of class. He learned that he can write well under pressure, he can write legibly enough that the teacher can read it, and he is able to focus enough that he can finish on time---but I am a volunteer in the class and I sometimes help him organize his notebook. I have to make sure he finishes his homework. I want him to focus on learning how to write well. That is the important thing for now, that is our priority for this year. From my seat in the back of his composition class I often see him tapping his foot on the floor, while all the other 7th through 9th graders' bodies are calm. The tapping gets faster as the time starts to run out. It is like he is in a race that he is determined to win. He is winning. With his sensory processing issues, migraines, and a painful scoliosis brace to deal with, I think my son can use a little extra help with the executive function issues. I think it is wrong to not provide kids with the help they need to do well. What about the asynchronous development that we learned about when they were in elementary or even younger? Do they magically become synchronous at middle school age?

There is no help for kids like mine at our school which is why I must continue to homeschool. I have heard from people who used to work at the school that they often ignore IEP's.

Middle school age students still have time to develop good executive function skills. I don't think there is anything wrong with helping middle school students with this kind of thing if they need help.

I was a sensitive kid, especially in middle school when I was learning to deal with migraine headaches and stomach aches. I used to throw up almost every day before class when I was in grade school, yet I managed to develop executive function skills that were good enough for me to do well in jobs like a payroll clerk, executive assistant, and accountant. I had to have extremely good executive function skills or I would have lost my job. My mother, who was also smart and sensitive, was very understanding and helped me when I needed help. I think her help and understanding enabled me to develop executive function skills, so I hope I am enabling my son in the same way.

It used to really bother me when people told me things like "he is playing on your sympathy and you are enabling him." I had to get to a point where I didn't care what other people thought.

LOL Grinity, thank you for that dialog. I will print it out for my meeting folder and see if I can work it in! The interesting thing is that we do have a monetary reward system in place at home and it is not helping one bit!

This is our first year in Middle School. And I think that most of the 6th grade teachers have not been formally exposed to Twice Exceptional learners. Seriously, the only action I want for him is to be able to have 1 folder for all his homework. But some homework has to be in the front of the binder, some at the back and some loose to turn in. He is not allowed to carry anything with him except the school assigned binders (we have to buy very specific ones to meet the rules) and his textbooks.

I honestly can't say that the school is bad or incapable of attempting to meet his needs. DH reminded me over lunch, that DS has set new precedents every year in this school. 3rd grade, he was put in the gifted program even though he didn't meet their rules on the advice of the his private psychiatrist. 4th grade, he was the first person subject skipped to 5th grade math. 5th grade, he did 100% independent study math. 6th grade, he is doing compacted independent study math in the 7th grade classroom. Maybe for 6th grade we can also set the precedent to use a folder/binder that works for him.

Go DH! That is a great perspective to take! But LOL that this is such a big deal! See if you can get that private psychiatrist to write a note about how important it is to allow DS to deviate from the organizational plan. I wish I could find a similar binder to that favorite one, but this one might do the trick as well -
http://tekgems.com/Products/et-56522-car-scmo-3-blu.htm

I would just cut out the extra flaps so that there is only 'homework to do' and 'homework to hand in'
DS also liked a third section for 'homework that isn't due tomorrow'

Good luck!
Grinity

My sister-in-law fought the designated binder and planner issue in middle school. Ultimately, she won them over by proposing a one week trial using her daughter's preferred system. Her DD showed significant improvement during that week and was allowed to keep using her system.

Another thought, any chance that he could turn in assignments electronically, i.e. scan and email to teacher, thus eliminating the paper issue?

Good luck fighting the well-intentioned, but flawed, system.

So this is where I was way back when and where DS7 will be in a few years. I don't care how many times I have reminded him his lunch money is in the lunch money spot, it still takes several days to get to the lunch lady AND that's only after he has called me to tell me his account is at $0. My initial question is always "did you look in the lunch money spot?". And his answer is always "no". And it's ALWAYS there.

I, on the other hand, have lists of lists of lists about making lists of all the things I need to make lists of... I try to keep the papers from coming out of my purse/drawers, but no such luck. I try to keep manuals with other manuals but often find the camera manual in the drawer by my bed, and the crock pot manual in the file labeled "manuals".

Since starting medicine for ADD/ADHD, it has become better... for me. But I do not want DS7 on meds if I can help it. Now ask me what I do for a living... that's right, I'm the one that keeps this place going, organized and create the processes to make things happen.

Maybe it's executive function issues. Maybe it's just being "us"... but very interesting post and another issue to research for me.

I've got DS a 2-inch-ring Case-It binder with zipper and carrying handle from Amazon. It has the accordian on the left when you open the binder. HTH

I remember having a Trapper Keeper in middle school and thinking I was really cool and organized. I don't think they make them anymore, but I wish my daughter had one.

[quote=knute974
Another thought, any chance that he could turn in assignments electronically, i.e. scan and email to teacher, thus eliminating the paper issue? [/quote]

Ooh, I like this idea! Hi5 to Knute!

They make them still!!

I remember getting a new one each year, starting out organized, and ending up keeping it shoved in my locker somewhere. *sigh*

My daughter was so disorganized for so many years. We worked with planners and other ways to organize. Suddenly, when she turned thirteen, she began keeping track. She keeps no list or planner, but keeps track in her head.

She sets an alarm for herself and gets everything done on time. This must have been a brain function. However, working on it probably made it a priority in her life.

Now, if we could deal with her having a boyfriend. This has been a major transition.

How r the aches?

He still has stomach aches most mornings. His pediatrician and Psych agreed that he should be on prevacid to see if that helps. So far, he throws up less often but the stress issue is unresolved. We are hesitant to put him on antianxiety medications but it may come to that. At his point, we are trying to take the focus off of school and grades. He is so excited about his skating that we are letting him focus more there as long as the basic class assignments get done. In addition we still have our fun learning time outside of school.

I guess it boils down to get through the day, do your homework and then we'll have fun and do the real learning.

Thanks for asking

I found an interesting article that studied the correlation between executive function and giftedness. According to this article:


I wish they would have covered HG+ kids in the study. One can only imagine that if there is considerable difference between average kids and superior kids in executive function development, then the gap between average kids and HG+ kids would be even more striking. Of course, when I show anything like this to DS10's teachers, their eyes glaze over. But at least it explains a few things to the parents who are dealing with this on a daily basis.

Oooh, this is so interesting to me.

I wonder how (haven't checked the link just yet) this progressing into adulthood. I also wonder how many adults with this issue as a child turned to an adult ADD diagnosis and/or meds. hmmm.

Has anybody read "Smart but Scattered"? The author makes the point that a real surge in brain development/executive functioning happens around age 11/12, so that a lot of expectations in middle school are just plain developmentally inappropriate.

The middle schools are basing their expectations on the development of normal kids. The graph in the link above shows that executive function peaks for most average kids by the age of 9. (11-12 for your "smart but scattered" kids that are moderately gifted.) If you think about it, that is just about in 4th grade for most kids. I don't know about other schools, but in my son's school the transition from 3rd to 4th brought a dramatic increase in expectation for organization, larger assignments due over several days (which requires time management skills), and longer amounts of time needed to focus and sit still (impulsiveness, fidgeting). In fact the classroom dynamics change dramatically, from sitting and working on a single assignment which was due at the end of the small time block, to lectures by the teacher at the blackboard with long writing assignments due for homework.

My DS is 10 years old, and is just finishing 6th grade with a subject acceleration in Science to 9th grade. His executive function skills have definitely not matured yet. However, he is in a classroom where most of the other kids are 12-13 years old (15 years old for the HS). We have gone around and around with the question of ADHD, but the more I research this, the clearer it seems that we just need to wait until his executive function matures. And hope that the school understands this for a radically accelerated student.

Here is a website that I frequently show my son's teachers!
Executive Function... "What is this anyway?"

ebeth, that is precisely the situation that we find ourselves in, too.


There is nothing wrong with our daughter that another couple of years isn't going to help-- probably substantially, given the trajectory ahead of her. (11 yo and in high school)

She's actually doing better than "typical" in terms of her age-mates, according to everything we can find on the subject. The problem is the inappropriate expectations placed on her because of the (marginally?) more appropriate academic setting.

This has unfortunately presented us with a series of unappealing options, none of which is anything close to ideal. We've chosen to try to support executive skill hothousing and offer educational supports within the bounds of 'normal' with the school and teachers' cooperation and approval, and keep our fingers crossed.

Thank you for this thread! I have read it, and a few others on executive function, over the course of the last week and then attended a 2E conference on the weekend where the keynote speaker's point was essentially that ADHD is not an attention or working memory disorder, it's Executive Dysfunction and that the gifted are more prone to it.

The speaker's perspective gave me great insight into my own daughter (and husband) but has also had me thinking a lot about whether Executive Dysfunction is really just a euphemism for ADHD.

I think HowlerKArma's comment here is an excellent distinction to keep in mind:


My own DD is not average (let alone better than) for her age, so I am confident there is an issue there. But do you define whether a child's executive function is problematic relative to their intellectual ability (and thus what they are trying to do with their time) or their age?

I am so distracted by my toddler that I am not sure if I made any sense there, so I apologise if this seems like a completely crazy ramble.

Hmmmm...

well, I think that for me, that is the question, isn't it?

After all, I certainly am not going to induce changes in my child's neurochemistry just for some improvement in what is, effectively, yet another facet of what it means to be HG+-- yes, it's asynchrony, again.

On the other hand, the problems that this causes are certainly real barriers to her in the here and now. It's hard to imagine my 12yo DD taking college coursework independently at this point, given her struggles to organize and prioritize her time.

Then again, by the time another decade has passed, the "problem" will vanish. So I don't really consider this to be the same thing as ADHD/ADD, which persists. This is immaturity instead.

We've had some success in hothousing some of these skills, but mostly in letting go of the expectation that she is capable of behaving exactly like a sixteen-year old. She isn't, and we're depriving her of the ability to be a child if we insist that she try.

KWIM?

My strategy here has been to try to provide supports for her that she can gradually take over responsibility for. I've found some of the books on executive function, and particular specialty books on subskills where DD is weakest, to be helpful in that regard.

This is made MUCH easier since she is educated at home, however. In a regular school setting with much older peers, it would be a monumental task.

Prior to hearing this Dr talk I would have been horrified to even consider that my DD might have innattentive ADHD, let alone consider medicating her. I came away feeling convinced that

a) she clear does have inattentive AHDH, or executive dysfunction if you prefer

b) so does my DH and his whole family

c) that this is caused by immaturity of the pre frontal cortex. The goal of medicating in this Dr's eyes, being to help the child function and make use of their that part of their brain until they get that massive development as a teen (so that they are using those nerves when they grow rather than not using them and having them pruned). The question is, looking at my DHs family, whether my DD will ever grow out of her "immaturity" of executive function...

I am taking her to a neuropsychologist during the 9 month wait for the developmental paed so we have plenty of time to think and to see if other things help. But my feeling is that we have done a huge amount to teach her useful skills, to set up her environment in a way that supports her and that she is learning to manage a lot of those functions well (for her) but she's just so SLOW about so many things because of how her brain functions.

I really do want to do more to help her but I am not sure if it can be taught, or if it needs either maturity or medication or both...

In my DS's case, this is pretty simple. He's highly asynchronous, so there are tasks he does alongside age-mates that are appropriate, and others that would normally be given to children much older than him. I look at how he does on tasks where he's doing the same thing as his age-mates, and I ask, does he organise and control himself as well as other 7yos on those tasks? Answer is clearly yes. Then I look at how he organises and controls himself on tasks which would normally be being done by a much older child, and I ask whether he does as well as would be expected if he were that age. Answer is clearly no. That's the point - his executive function is age-appropriate, but not appropriate to all the tasks he's doing. Because of this I'm with HowlerKarma - I wouldn't contemplate medicating him (even if I thought it would help) because - well, as I type it I find it's hard to be pithy and convincing, but it doesn't seem right to risk side-effects and possible long-term effects for something which is not his brain working wrongly, but just it still working right for his age in one way.

I'm sure there would be other cases where it'd be much harder to sort out - for younger children, I guess, and maybe also for older children who are less asynchronous. I could imagine someone having trouble if their child didn't have the EF for intellect-appropriate tasks but also found (all) age-appropriate tasks so boring that they couldn't focus on them for that reason; you'd have to watch very carefully to spot that two different things were going on!

My eldest DD is pretty clear cut, she is less able to function than her peers on age appropriate tasks and is not meeting her intellectual potential by any measure. I think, when she finally gets in to see the paed in 9 months time, that we probably well agree to medicate her.

My 2nd DD may be one of these more tricky to figure out cases. She clearly doesn't have the same degree of issues as her older sister, so she seems "Great" to me comparatively, she's not yet at school so I don't know how that will pan out. But our perspective is perhaps skewed as to what "great" looks like. She's likely to be more asynchronous and she's got an ADHD role model... It's amazing how different #2 is when #1 is way (like on camp for 3 days). Which in itself may be a reason to err on the side of treating #1 if it is suggested - the degree to which her chaos is effecting her younger sisters' behavior (and my sanity). For example DD2 has no trouble following instructions and getting ready for school when DD1 is not there, but she is almost as bad as DD1 if DD1 is there. Whereas DD1 is a nightmare to get to school whether DD2 is there or not.

I know this thread is old and I don't have a child in MS but willl next year. I'm just curious, do the MS really insist on binders for each subject and that each child be organized in the same fashion? This surprises me since I don't think I have issues with organization (probably average at that) but this method would probably have had me leaving things in my locker as well. We had many folders but I thought they were mostly in a big trapper keeper thing. I would probably have had to carry my whole backpack with everything to each class. Maybe I did (I'm so old I can't remember .....My first thought when I read the thread was that this sounds like the school's problem. They should let each kid figure out how to get it done in their own way.....not prescribe something.

Our local MS does not provide lockers so the kids must carry everything with them from class to class. In response to heated complaints from parents, however, they do provide two sets of books -- one for class and one for home -- so the kids don't have to lug those around.

The teachers each require a folder and spiral notebook, so there is still quite a stack of materials that are carried throughout the day. Add a band instrument to the mix and our son gets quite a workout.

And just to make sure the kids don't fall asleep between classes, they have only 3 minutes to get from one class to the next.

I require my 6th grade social studies students to carry three items to each class: their school planner, a two-pocket portfolio for their homework and handouts (that I believe is common to our 6th grade team), and a pencil with some kind of eraser.

And then I have pod managers for every small group who can loan and log pencils from the supply closet, or exchange a micropencil (one in danger of going into the pencil sharpener and never coming out) for a full-size one if the micropencil is the only one the student has.

We have only a classroom set of textbooks, so textbooks do not go home. I buy paperback composition books for all my students that stay in the classroom. I rarely ask them to use a sheet of notebook paper, and provide some when I do. I rarely give homework, and I encourage students to submit their homework online if they can. I see that three students have used the online option to report back to me on their interview with a grandparent, but it isn't due until the 29th.

All of this is because I have my own executive function issues. I am trying to limit the amount of loose paper floating around my room.