Does anyone know where there is a forum that slants more toward older kids? I really enjoy this one, but I do feel like I'm alone out here in the gifted world of high school/ college.

I'm in need of talking to some people that have "been there/tried that" for older kids. I also need some specific guidance, such as getting scholarships for non-diploma gifted kids, jobs, helping determine majors, academic load for early college, driving rules, dating, early independence, allowing mistakes/bad decisions, depression,teen friends, etc.

I had asked the moderator for a specific topic/section on this and was told it wasn't going to happen. The information kind of gets lost in the midst of all of the posts, and well, there's just not a lot of us.

Anyway, that is my need, and I thought I'd see if anyone else knows of a place I can get support more for older kids.

Thanks in advance!

There's a GT-Families Listserv that may fit the bill:

To subscribe, send mail to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ICORS.ORG with the command (paste it!):


SUBSCRIBE GT-FAMILIES

Another possibility would be to contact one of the facilitators listed here and ask if they know of anything like that:

http://www.sengifted.org/smpg_parent_facilitatordirectory.shtml

The SENG website also led me to this article on Gifted Adolescents:

http://www.sengifted.org/articles_social/BuescherHigham_HelpingAdolescentsAdjust.shtml

No help here, but I'm very interested in the responses. My younger sister is having a terribly hard time finding her way through college (and life, for that matter) for reasons that seem to have everything to do with giftedness, but I haven't been able to find much good information/support for gifted college students that I can pass on to her.

Inky: Thanks for the info. I'll see if the listserv serves for older kids. So far the ones I've been a part of, are for younger.
I have enjoyed several articles from SENG, too! If I ever get some time, I wouldn't mind supporting their efforts.

MsFriz: Is she having executive functioning problems? I don't know if she is at a private college, but for sure private, some public, have services available to learning disabled kids, even if they don't have testing. They'll sometimes do it there for their students. Private schools especially want their students to succeed. She might look around for that.
My oldest whose in college has a great system of advocating for herself when needed. She is twice exceptional, and it is documented. They did test her again. The center helped her work out a fair but good system, she can deal with. If ExecFunc skills are the issue, let me know, and I'll share with you what she is doing in greater detail.

CFK - I have gone to collegeconfidential, but they are more for finding out deadlines, requirements, and how to get in. Also, they don't seem to have the same...hmmmm, easy manner? of this group. Lots of bragging and intimidating...but thanks!

I'm going to continue looking the next few days or so. If someone knows of somewhere else to try, let me know. Hopefully, I'll find something out there.

Jayne-

The Davidson Young Scholars has a very active listserve for parents of teens. Threads there cover just about everything. If you think your child may qualify, I encourage you to apply.

I have a 20 year old son. Wow- that sounds old! He had his birthday last month.

I'd be happy to chat with you, and I am sure others would jump right in as well!

Thanks, Jayne, but it's not an executive functioning problem. More like an overabundance of intellectual passion and pursuits
combined with a lack of challenge and guidance. She's bored and frustrated and strikes me as a graduate student stuck in an undergraduate program. So let me know if you find something!

Thanks again!

Hi Jayne -

My son is still in preschool but I had some ideas for you:

#1keep asking questions here! There are not many of you but there are a few parents on this board with children in HS and college. Maybe you can build a critical mass. Also, some parents with younger kids can tell you about their own experiences.

#2 have you checked hoagies for ideas? especially links to regional discussion boards. (see #3)

#3 try state gifted associations. even for states you don't live in

#4 yahoo who has a few good (active) gifted disussion groups

- EW

p.s. I will send you a private message with more ideas

DS12 will be in high school in about 6 months, so hold on!

When the Young Scholar Program kids 'Age Out' at age 18, I sent the parents an email inviting them to start posting here. not sure it's working, but I'm trying! If you have any friend who are facing these questions, but maybe are spread out geographically, maybe see if they will 'met you in cyberspace' so that the rest of us will have the benifit of your experience, ok?


I can help with the 'determine majors' perhaps. One of my 'new favorite' books is 'What High Schools don't tell you, and other parent's don't want you to know.' I know the title is a bit lurid, but I found it very interesting and inpiring, and it lists the various majors and career paths.

As far as the social/emotional stuff, I'll be lots of us remember what we, and friends and family members, went through, and although much has changed, perhaps we can help that way?

Best Wishes,
Grinity

I third the idea of recruitment to here! We're earlier in the process, but not so early that I don't want to listen in and learn!

If I can help recruit HS/college families here, just tell me how and I'll help!

Thanks for the support of trying to get a HS/College following on this forum.

Kriston, maybe the first thing we could do is try to get our wonderful moderator to put a separate high school/college thread?

Part of my problem is having to hunt and peck to see if something related has been posted somewhere in the past.

Just an idea!

Well, Mark did just revise all the headings recently with lots of input from all of us. The way that was chosen to deal with age-specific issues was to have the very heading under which you posted this thread: Age or Ability Specific Forums. So I think you aren't likely to get a separate heading for older kids, regardless of who campaigns or how much. Note that the younger kids--who are, indeed, discussed a lot more often--don't have their own forum heading either.

Honestly, I suspect you have trouble finding stuff about high school and college kids here because there isn't much to find. More people would generate more threads which would generate more to find!

Jayne,
I haven't found any for older children, either. I am in college currently (with two kids in high school) and know a little bit about college issues (such as honors programs and major selection) from experience but not much for high school...

Is there a Middle School forum? I'd love to discuss the issues around this age group. It all becomes so complicated when their emotions start rolling.

Hi Jayne,

I have a HS sophomore and 2 middle schoolers. I have to admit that I went from full addiction to occasional perusal of this board (no, I haven't cheated and found another, but it is because my needs are now geared toward older kids issues). I second Lorel's suggestion about applying to YS because there are boards and seminars that are specifically geared toward high school/college. Also, I second the others' idea of staying here so we can develop a high school forum.

Hi Ellipses,

Many of us have middle schoolers (I have 2--one in 8th grade and one in 6th) so let's just start it. Grinity, Dottie, Ania, & many others also have middle school kids.

I have a rising freshman and a rising 7th grader.
We just went through the course selection for HS. What a nightmare (on me, not on him).
I believe that there is not enough people on this forum that have middle/hs age kids to make it really fly. We can exchange knowledge/ideas, but it will be a little one directional, I think.
But we can try!

I wanted to second Grinity's reccomendation of What High Schools don't Tell You (and Other Parents don't Want You to Know ). It is written from a perspective of a parent who aspires for her kids to attend top/ivy/portfolio type colleges so you have to read it with a grain of salt, but some of the ideas the author presents in the book are extremely valuable.
For example, I never knew that when applying for research positions towards the end of HS (and this is how you make those winning Intel/Siemens projects) candidates are being asked if they ever participated in a talent search? Who knew? Especially since the importance of participation is so downplayed by many, many schools?
This is a book my DH is reading right now. It contains a lot of things I was already aware of - nice way for him to catch up

^^see what I mean? Almost twelve hours from the time I posted last and no responses

BTW - Jayne, you are almost done with HS! You should be focusing on college. Go and browse that collegeconfidential forum

We are in a rural area (as of last year) that really lacks in many items that are on college resumes. I am aware of these things due to the city from which I located.

I want to start a group for parents of college-bound students from this entire area. How can we keep track of volunteer hours? In high schools, there is usually someone who is designated for this. Does someone need to be accredited somewhere?

So, what did you pick? My state has SO many requirements that there aren't a lot of "choices". I have an 8th grader too and can't decide whether to make a case to ditch Honors General Science for Honors Biology (seems like the rest of the country has freshmen take Bio, which we do sophomore yr).

Pre IB course selection, 9th grade:

Honors LA 10
AP Calc BC
Spanish III
Honors Geography for Life
Honors Bio
PE
Honors Physics (elective)
Debate (elective)

Eight classes, school runs on block schedule.

The secret, apparently, is to do the "dumb requirements" online during summer or so...I am still finding out...

Cym - go for Biology. How are the kids supposed to perform in Science Olympiads if they are on schedule to take AP sciences only by senior year? You have to have it in your pocket, so to speak, by the time thay are juniors if they are interested in this sort of thing. And I always say - how do you know which one is your favorite, Bio, Chem or Phys if you have only taken physics?

If it concerns you, please do be informed that California University system requires 1 year of fine arts in the same subject. Important for those of us close to California, who knows what college the kid will choose to go to ???

What is your view on the number of years a kid takes math, english, foreing lang, science , social studies IF he/she aspires for top universities?
I have been told by quite a few that FOUR of each if you want to be competitive, no matter what your concentration is going to be.
Any thoughts?

(unlimited time today as I am home with a cold )

I have usually heard three years of a flang. Usually college or AP courses are taken as well.

I am also thinking college visits today. I know, sounds crazy, but we are SO isolated and planning to visit NYC this fall that might as well throw a few colleges into our trip, thinking me

I am thinking that I should probably start close to home, since there are several large universities here that S is a little familiar with, but what about a small, nice LAC, just for a feel of it? Which one will be closest to Utah?

I've heard we might go to 7 period day (wonder how that will work). I wish we had debate as an elective. I really can't figure out what's a verifiable elective (they say it depends how many kids sign up for a class to see if it "makes"). This DS loves science and engineering (at least right now).

I agree I should try for the honors bio (even though it'll be with all sophomores, but that's ok I suppose).

I wish we could get out of the PE requirement. DS will play soccer and practice 3 hrs/day after school every day in the fall and probably tennis in the spring. Sports like basketball and football count toward PE credit, but not others. It's so wrong!

Even our poor high school has MANY trips to the nearby colleges, so I would not spend my time looking at those as much as ones they won't visit. Colorado College in the Springs is supposed to be small LAC that is highly regarded. I know Ghost is talented in many areas but if he is interested in math/science, we just visited NM Tech in Socorro. It is a very good school--probably top 10 technical schools, receiving more money from govt for research than any other school (I've heard). They have so many neat research projects and opportunities. Check out SSP for when he's a junior.

We are going to visit some colleges this summer too for 10th grade DS. Maybe NY (DS is applying to a summer program there are in IL, so we'll see which he gets into/chooses).

At "our" HS kids need 1.5 PE credit for graduation. 1 full credit has to be PE but the 0.5 can be done through participation in sports. G will probably chose cross country, since fencing (his current sport) does not count. I wonder how long he will continue with fencing once this heavy workload begins If he does OK in Calc BC he will run out of math classes for sophomore and junior years (as senior will have to take IB math). Taking U courses will be VERY challenging transportation wise...

Our state requires 4 Eng & 4 math, 3 science to graduate! Can you believe that? Do you really think every high schooler is equipped to take 4 math courses. It's no problem for us--we'd plan to do that, but I just think it sets many up for failure.

Re: college visits. I want him to know what a LAC feels like, as so far he has only been exposed to big U. Will look at Colorado Springs, if DD goes to Denver.

So the years don't really matter when the kids are accelerated.

They will top out of everything, even the distance education and concurrent enrollment options.
Some high schools have no problem if they continue their education at a local college. Some do...If the classes aren't "articulated" with the high school, they may not receive high school credit for the college classes. Crazy! But it happened to us. (I figured out a loop hole if someone is stuck in this position.)

Typically, the gifted kids top out of their subjects, move on to college classes (taught by semester basis) and move through a college program. Once they start taking college classes, their time/years requirement changes.

A college course taught by semester is equal to a year of high school or more. So they really don't need 4 years of Eng/Math/Sci/Hist, but 4 high school credits of Eng/Math/Sci/Hist.

This adds some flexibility when earning their AA or more, because they need to take other college courses, such as foreign languages, statistics, health, and humanities.

Also, be aware...that some colleges will try to get the high school kids to take only science classes "for non-science majors." Sometimes the lab is optional in these, sometimes not.

If your kids don't have a strong science interest or background, these are fine for a starting point, but not the same depth as the regular science for science majors which always requires a lab. Depending on their major, they will need to then take "the science for science majors" courses. Sometimes this is a viable option, if they have a heavy load and want an introduction to physics, before taking the fast paced one, for example. Also, you want A's for scholarships and grad/law/medical/dental school. It is smart to play it safe, if needed.

Also, if they take only one semester of science for science majors at the high school's feeder college, they will have have to retake it before they take the second semester at their final university. These intro/weeder courses need to be taught combined at one school (Bio 1A/1B, Chem 101/102, Physics, etc)...the universities teach them together and juggle topics. so it's not good to come in half way.

And that's just Science...LOL

(I hope this all makes sense...and helps! )
Some day I'll write a short post!

ANOTHER OPTION

I have been reading up on high school/college alternative paths and came across this really great interview from a kid's perspective.

Intern'tl Chem Olympiad, Pres Scholar, and Harvard Scholar Kid

There are many things I like about this interview. For one, the kid found a passion, but still loves learning in general (see last question of interview). I also like that he seems humble and wasn't radically pushed by parents. AP Chem sophomore year isn't radical, although he started at a university in 9th grade...still not TOO radical.

I love how his parents handled the languages. I wonder how much was Dad's job transfers.

Kids are amazing if we can find the opportunities for them to learn and keep it intrinsically rewarding.

AH MAN, I was really hoping "this" became more of a non-issue at some point for parents. Well, gotta go clean up the bubble splatter.

Jayne ,
Excellent, excellent points in your "longer" post above. Thank you. Boy, there is so much to learn!!!


We do not want to be stuck! Tell me what you know!


An obvious ignorant here, but what is SSP?

DS is taking Mathcounts chapter tomorrow; cold, without ever doing ANY Mathcounts problems!
Dear God, please help him...

He won! Won the entire thing! First place in written, first place in countdown! He even scored 100% on a team round but could not get trophy for that since he was a team of...one
He made it to state!

I still can't believe it! On Thursday night we had no idea he is is going to do Mathcounts...

Very cool! Congrats to ds!

Congrats to your DS! That's wonderful!

My husband graduated from Colorado College. It is very difficult to get into and expensive - need scholarships, probably Boettcher. The curriculum is very flexible and one can even write his or her own. We are hoping our daughter can go there. She is a legacy so will have a decent chance.

That's great!!!

Technically, he is a team of TWO - one and null make a set of TWO!!

I'm really excited for you, Ania and your son, of course! When we moved, my kids didn't recognize the competitions mentioned at school, and didn't pursue them...sadly!

I wasn't aware of them, although I bet they were mentioned in school newsletters in crypted-acronym form, like standardized tests. Anyway, I'll be looking into some for next year.

In the meantime...I am going to post a high school related topic on this same thread. Since we don't have our own forum, this thread will be a twisted, curvy one.

I found what I wanted surfing around for high school options last week...a list of academic math/science competitions with their nicknames, and when, what, and where to compete!

I am hoping that if our middle/high schools don't offer one that will fit our 13yo, that hubby and me might successfully introduce one. Never know how it will go though with public schools!

So here is the link! Middle/High School Academic Competitions

(I'll just keep dropping things here in this thread that are high school related.)

Go DS-Ania! Well Done!
Too bad about the 'team' problem though.
Smiles,
Grinity

I learned something new last week you won't hear from your high school counselor!

Background info: so once you get in college, you have your basics (traditionally 2 years) that you fulfill and some prerequisites (which often overlap as a basic course) for a major.

It used to be that if you had a specific gpa with the prerequisites finished, the major fields will let you in. Now you "apply" to get within a school/major/program within the university. Some applications require a test also to get into the school. Some schools will go back and look at your SAT/SAT subject/ACT scores, if the program is very competitive to get into.

NEW NEWS FOR ME! Not all of these schools/majors/programs will recognize AP/IB scores for their department. Students get a "leg up" if they actually took the courses at the university level, since they are harder and the professors know what is covered.

Also...(more news for me!)...she said some medical schools also do not count math and science AP/IB courses as a check for requirements to apply.

(She was home yesterday, advising her 16 yo brother on his college classes for next year. I overheard all of this, and stopped for explanations.) Again, I think the best way to figure high school is to take distance education courses (telecast to the high school from university) or to take it directly from the college your child intends to go to, or to take courses from a highly "articulated" college that works with that university.

Never take a college credit course without talking to the dean of the final university in the right department, as to what he will require and accept...and then...it might even change! Things seem to be bending to more competitiveness.

I do think this is a worthwhile topic, but I don't actually agree with this. Many gifted kids dabble in college courses well before they have a particular program or university in mind. Should they really hold off on learning at that level if they don't know if it will "count" later? What about learning for it's own sake? What about being challenged? In my opinion, learning is never "wasted". I do appreciate the advice, but perhaps this will apply more to some than to others.

Hi Lorel!
Thanks for clearing this up. I referred to this in an earlier post, but the way this thread covers different topics, it's kind of lost back there. I'm all for learning for learning's sake. I was specifically trying to share about applying credits to programs.

Here is where I kind of referred to taking courses that won't count to a major degree program:

I am trying to keep my posts shorter than longer, and I do think it's kind of confusing to follow.

The problem here is when the college students think and believe they have checked something off way back in high school and now have 3 years of college finished and are ready to start their major (some prerequisites for some majors are a little over a semester and don't overlap).

Having to go back and take math and sciences after a few years break when you didn't plan to can be expensive, as well as annoying. Her friends are wanting to go to their degree program, one is staying to redo his AP classes for a few med schools. Rent, tuition, and books are expensive, not to mention the time factor...anyway, that's what I was referring to. They need to double check with the head of the department, before they just assume that it can apply to the program they intend it to.

I think it is logical to think that if the university accepted the AP/IB for admittance, the school/program within will. It was news to me that not only do they not, some medical schools (and probably other higher degree programs) do not. Also, they use index scores for admissions into some of these programs, and AP courses do not add points. It will help us in planning, so I thought I'd share.

(I hope this high school/college thread will work out for all topics...maybe not )

You can always start another thread. I don't think there's any reason why all high school/college topics have to be confined to a single thread. Feel free to spread out!

Well, I hope this becomes a subforum pretty soon

me too!!

Late comments--

SSP is the Summer Science Program offered at NM Tech and Ojai, CA. I understand it's an amazing program for brilliant science/math folks--very prestigious and valuable.

Congrats Ania on Ghost's Math Counts. That is too cool! I keep remembering last year's Math Counts final video & maybe this year we'll see Ghost up there (those kids solved the problems faster than I could even read them! It was such a treat to watch).

Well, State Mathcounts was today and... Ghost is on a state team going to Orlando Florida in May!!!
Again can't believe it! Was third in written and second in countdown. This is a boy that started doing mathcounts a month ago!
I think we will all travel to Florida with him

Cym - I really do not think Ghost will make it to the top ten but it is so cool to be part of your state team! Such an achievement!
Go team Utah! ( and I am sure they will practice hard to be the best team Utah ever!)