I just got my son's MAP reading score. In K and Ist grade, DS was in 99 percentile. In 2nd grade the score kept going down. From 207 in 1 st grade spring to 204 in second grade spring. What is going on? How to help him?
I am not familiar with the MAP scores or test.
Maybe that isn't statistically significant. I mean, 207 and 204 sound about the same to me. Does it seem like his reading is progressing?
Perhaps part of it could be- lots of kids are not reading in kindergarten, and half at the start of first grade aren't. Even second grade. So perhaps the curve is higher in second grade than kindergarten- like if the child is an early reader, they will score off the charts in kindergarten but not as much later on.
however, they could still be a great reader.
What is going on is that he isn't getting any reading instruction at his level, and he isn't getting enough practice with challenging material to go up on his own. Those scores are more like what is expected of the average 4th or 5th grader, and he is not getting that level of instruction in his classroom.
With my dd who is pretty consistent, even when she got inadequate or what amounted to no instruction, her reading MAPS scores went up while her math MAPS score kind of stagnated. I attributed it to her being able to pick up reading and most language arts by osmosis basically b/c she read a lot. Math, on the other hand, suffered a lot in the absence of actual instruction b/c it wasn't something she had the opportunity to self teach in the absence of reading math texts or being a seriously mathy kid who saw math in daily life, which she is not.
In your ds' instance, what have the percentiles and total #s looked like -- was it 99th consistently with the #s going up and then a slow decline?
Does anyone who knows much about MAPS know if the test is a different version starting in 2nd when the OP's dc' scores started to level or slip?
Of course, you can talk to his teacher about it.
You can also in the meantime just have him read more at home. My second grader this year did a reading contest at school- he read 400 books or book chapters in 4 months. He started reading ALOT at home for this silly contest- magically, his reading skills just jumped.
You could read a book with him and have like a book club at home where you discuss it. Etc.
Thanks for the replies. My DS reads a lot at home, he reads magazines and chapter books. He comprehends the information because he uses that in his conversations.
The climb was really steep in K and 1st grade, through out 99 percentile and in second grade it jut dropped down kind of steeply.
I will be talking to his teacher as well.
The difference in PMAP and MAP is PMAP is read to the kids via head phones. I believe that would be the only difference in the tests.
eta... some schools switch to the regular MAP in second grade others in third
Our school switches to MAP from PMAP in 2nd grade. My son skipped midyear and we got all sorts of promises that his score would go down with his first MAP. It didn't, it went up 12 points.
However, it hasn't moved since. In four tests now, his score has stayed literally exactly the same. I expressed some concern to the teacher who said that she just can't teach the stuff that is the next level up in her class. Essentially she refused to differentiate. This sparked a whole level of advocacy on our part, which took the full year, and was still unsuccessful.
If you look at the RIT scales Inky has posted on other threads, is your child ready for the next 10 points section? In my research, this isn't just about reading. For example, the next section on my son's test was about logic arguments. He was expected to tell the difference between circular logic and strawman arguments. Well he's 8 and in 3rd grade with a teacher who won't teach so that's not going to happen!
We've dropped the issue because the next section is some pretty out there stuff and I'd rather he just read and love it right now. But if I felt like my child was ready to learn it, I'd work on it at home.
That's tough, CAMom. Is he so bored that you can motivate him to do some extra studying? If so, can you get his scores high enough for next fall's MAP testing to argue for another skip?
My kids' school is using a new curriculum this year that supposedly allows kids of all reading abilities to get the same instruction in the same classroom and progress at their own rates, but both my kids (MG+, HG+) have had the same MAP reading scores for the last year. Neither are reading books at their level in school because they want to read what's popular among their friends, and their teachers aren't requiring them to read at their level. I'm pretty sure my DS7 has completely tuned out the entire year's worth of reading "instruction" since he can't tell me a thing about what they're learning. And no wonder, when they're focusing on discussing books like "Henry and Mudge" and "Flat Stanley." We read as a family at home and discuss, but they don't tend to have time to read more than 30 minutes a night at home beyond that. I'm looking forward to the summer when they can read at their level whenever they want and we have the time for discussions about what they're reading.
BTW: Our school switches to the regular MAP from the PMAP at 2nd grade, and DS's teacher said that it is expected for scores to go down at this point. Still, my DS's scores don't reflect AT ALL that he is consistently reading and comprehending 5th-6th grade books at home, and has been for the last year. So any attempt to get accomodations falls on deaf ears.
There is nothing to worry about. Either 207 or 204 is great scores for K or 1st graders, and adults should not over-analyze the numbers. The 'going down' is called fluctuation. The official report you get gives you a range. Some typical reasons are:
1. Any test scores are should be viewed as a kind of statistical average. So it serves as a guideline, but should not be exacted on a single person;
2. The questions were picked up by computers. So the questions may have more words that he didn't know this year or something. Also, the computer knows him after his first test last year, so it may started with harder questions, and worked backwards;
3. Young children may have worked more attentively last year, since it was his first time. Since he did so well, he may have rushed himself this year, or any other factors.
You will never know what actually happened -- Mr. Heisenberg said so. :-)
That's tough, CAMom. Is he so bored that you can motivate him to do some extra studying? If so, can you get his scores high enough for next fall's MAP testing to argue for another skip?
*small hijack- my apologies!*
He's bored enough to do extra studying but not in areas the MAP cares about :-) This is a case where we're waiting for the test to catch up to the kid I'm afraid!
And the school is very disinterested in working with us at this point. New principal considers my son's scores (all of them... piles of them) to be a "fluke". So we're done... we're homeschooling next year! DS is adjusting to the idea. He has made some very good friends now post-skip and is worried about losing them. But it'll be okay- the new friends are close neighbors and are also heavily considering homeschooling. I suspect we'll be working together some time soon!
My DS told me that they do use the headphones. The MAP score sheet they give shows scores till 8th grade (not sure if its 9th or 8th grade). Would this MAP testing be MAP or PMAP then?
tenBelow, he is in second grade not in first. Its the second grade where reading has not stalled but fallen back every time he was tested this year.
I think the suggestion to read out loud is a good one. He does read a lot but when asked to read out loud - isn't happy about it.
It makes sense for the percentile to change as his peers gain experience with reading. However, it doesn't make sense for the score itself to be going down. I'd be concerned that his reading is just sort of stagnating. I'd be looking for ways to stretch him at home.
I'm not sure if this will be helpful to you or not, but I was just looking at a MAP Reading skills ladder and noticed that the test is not just reading and comprehending what you've read or defining a word from its context, but it also requires students to know the meaning of terms like synonym, homonym, antonym in the directions in order to answer certain questions, and also there are questions about root words and suffixes and prefixes. I'm sure this varies by district, but it occurs to me that these terms are not even taught in 1st and 2nd grade in our district. This is a big ah-ha moment for me. My DS has never been taught these things at school, and I'm not sure these terms have come up much in our discussions at home, either. Perhaps these things might account for the stagnation of scores while your child continues to read well and comprehend well?
My DS told me that they do use the headphones. The MAP score sheet they give shows scores till 8th grade (not sure if its 9th or 8th grade). Would this MAP testing be MAP or PMAP then?
Strange question but are the headphones actually turned on? My son's school makes everyone wear them to block out the surrounding noise, fidgets etc, no matter grade level.
Does your school do MAP testing twice per year? If so, I'd compare those results. My friend's DD's school did testing 2-3/year. The 2nd and 3rd tests would show a decline. The first test would show an increase. Why? B/c her DD spent the summer reading at her level which was way above the school's grade level so on her first test, she'd test well. After tuning out during the school year, her scores would decline again. Only to go up again AFTER a summer of reading and enrichment.
Thanks everyone for the input. Got the chance to talk to the teacher. According to the teacher the problem may be not reading slow enough but kind of browsing through the material. She thinks he is in a hurry to complete the test. She definitely thinks that if he slows down during the test he can do way better because according to her his score should be above 210 at least.
Any recommendations from you all on how to get him to slow down. Any books out there that really cater to MAP style test practice?
Many school districts do the MAP testing but I have never heard of any specific course material. Is there a particular reason why there aren't any but just broad guidelines published by NWEA?
Thanks in advance for replying to my questions
Thanks Inky for this link. Is there a similar site for Math MAP as well?
Someone asked here if the headphones are really one - yes they are on !
Someone asked here if the headphones are really one - yes they are on !
That was me! I asked because if they are on and sound is coming out- then it is P-MAP not MAP. P-MAP reads aloud most of the material and questions. The MAP test (generally for kids in grades 3+ but some use it in 2nd like my son's school) does not read the questions to the kids.
My son's MAP score was significantly higher than his P-MAP, despite only about 8 weeks between tests. We believe this is because the P-MAP was just too slow for him and he started daydreaming waiting for it to finish reading the stuff. He also does far better reading questions on his own than listening to them.
Hi, I'm new here but really frustrated with my son's school. He's in 2nd grade but since he is bright to start with and started school a year early in England then was forced to repeat first grade in Texas we have more issues.
Anyway, reading this thread has helped me. I got his MAP scores yesterday and was really upset by how much his reading has dropped. We do testing 3 times a year, so his past 6 scores starting fall of first grade and ending at spring of 2nd grade are:
reading: 185, 190, 207, 193, 202, 197
math: 184, 202, 201, 200, 211, 207
I had someone else say to me that the drop is probably because he isn't learning anything new which makes sense.
Now my biggest question is this. How do I convince the school they need to do being more for him (and others like him)? They very much teach to the middle, bringing the top of the class down to the middle and hoping to bring the bottom up.
How do I convince the school they need to do being more for him (and others like him)?
That's the million dollar question many of us are here trying to figure out.
I did notice a drop in my daughter's scores as she switched from P-MAP in 1st grade to 2nd grade and her teacher said that they were seeing that with many children. It looks like he met the expected growth for the year on the winter testing but it's disappointing to see both scores go down in spring.
Here's what NWEA says about negative growth:
http://www.nwea.org/support/article/554/negative-growthI'd ask him if any of those factors were an issue. Otherwise, it could be that he's not getting enough material in his zone of proximal development.
It is frustrating. It is the same way in our school and with my child. I think the kids need help when they are reading at 4th 5th grade level to understand and explore the material that is at that grade level. Since they have reached this level on their own they are indicating thay are ready to move forward but they need more attention, they are telling us that parents and teachers this is how far we could go, now can you help us a little here.
The teachers time and energy is taken away by the difficult and weaker kids and the smarter ones are left on their own to go figure out.
If the performance goes down then the reason given is lack of attention and seriousness !!!
What to do about it - I have no idea.
I am also surprised by the fact that almost all the kids in the class are reading the same books from the library. So all of a sudden all these kids who were not reading properly have caught up and the kids who were performing high have gone down - what happened here?
I am joing the reading scores dropping conversation... dd7 had met her annual goal after winter MAP and her spring MAP her score dropped. Could it be because her mind was developing more in math? Her growth in math for the year was 16 points where typical growth is 11 (reading she grew 5 points and that is typical)
I had a similar thing happen with my DD7. Looking at other data points, her reading progressed well this year. Here's what NWEA has to say about triangulation of data:
http://www.nwea.org/support/article/528/triangulation-data
inky is dd in 1st grade or second? Mine is in 1st. I am wondering a few things here...
1. she wears glasses and has since 13 months. The 2nd day of testing she came home in tears. She told me she had trouble reading the screen. She didn't want to read that night.
2. her math scores sky rocketed. Can that have something to do with it? DD's RIT 2 points and percentile went down 8
eta .. based on her math map they are skipping 2nd grade math and placing her in 3rd next year.. yea for subject acceleration without having to ask for it!
Sheila
She's in 1st but has been doing subject acceleration in reading and math with 2nd grade. My DD's RIT and percentile went down from winter to spring while her math went up significantly. Her teacher and I think the reading score wasn't a valid reflection of what's going on with her reading based on other measures.
Have you seen growth in your DD's reading from winter to spring based on other measures or do they support the MAP results? Congrats on the subject acceleration without having to ask!!
inky.. the RIT also went down winter to spring. Her level of reading hasn't changed. One advantage(I think) is she is in a multi-grade 1/2 classroom. She is reading on a mid third grade level. The girls in leveled reading group are all in second grade. Around mid march or so she kept saying she didn't like the books they were reading. The older girls only wanted to read one chapter a night so the pace was very slow for dd. The math acceleration started after spring break when they moved dd into the second grade math class (math is the only subject they teach by grade separately). My thought on that was finally no more domino dot counting lol.
My son will be math accelerated starting in kinder. He will be in first grade math ... I see that he will probably end up in grade 2 math by spring break as well....ughh MORE domino dot counting lol
ok report card came today and here is what her teacher said...
"Frannie continues to read above grade level with fluency and comprehension. She is able to figure out new words and their meanings. During the last trimester, I am worried that Fran is reading very fast and thinking less about hat she is reading. Reading is never a race, and isnt about reading harder books at higher levels. Reading is about developing thinking, learning & understanding new information..... "
So, we have had the "talk" about being the first one done.. this goes for eating, test taking, homework etc..
Any thoughts?
The teacher's comments are all well and good but she seems to discount the need to "feed the beast." One chapter a night sounds painfully slow for my daughters who want to inhale their books. This is why I like the gifted reader's Bill of Rights which mentions the right to read at a pace and level appropriate to readiness without regard to grade placement. That seems like an important part of fostering a love of reading.
http://www.bertiekingore.com/readers_bill_of_rights.pdf
I am a parent of a 99 percentile reader. These Map scores do flucuate a lot and I have read that one of the problems with these tests is that children sometimes learn in chunks and in no particular pattern. These tests arbitrarily assign difficulty to their questions. I have never been given enough information from the school about these tests and my child tells me that that at the top of the test, she receives the same questions year after year. Does any one know what the top score is. My child received a 265 this year after staying at the 235 to 240 level for 2 years. I was never sucessful at getting proper reading instruction through the school. I buy lots of books and visit the library regularly.
Hi, readers. MAP percentile scores are based on the subject's grade and time of year that the test is given. That is, there is a raw score (the 265, 235, 240 etc., called a "RIT score"), which is turned into a percentile score based on grade level/time of test. This makes sense, because reading at a top 2nd grade level doesn't say much for a 5th grader.
Here's a very abbreviated score chart to show you what I mean:
http://www.bismarck.k12.nd.us/uploads/resources/1475/2008-hiloav.pdfHere's the full set of charts:
http://pickens.it.schoolfusion.us/m...File/MAP/Norms2008.pdf?sessionid=0f88735
Hello lucouhu
I am aware of the raw rit scores and percentiles for the different grades. My child has always tested at 99+ percentile. The Rit score does fluctuate a great deal especially for gifted children. I was trying to get across that my experience is that these tests are not always that accurate and one child can go up or down by 10-15 points every 3 months or so. The company NWEA admits that they are not sure of the accuracy after the 245 RIT and does not say what the ceiling RIT score is for this test. I would not be too concerced if my 1st grader did poorly on 1 or 2 of these tests as long as they are progressing year after year. Lastly parents need to provide appropriate reading material for their gifted children because I have found that schools will not.
Hi, I know you posted this ages ago, but we are having the same problem. Our son did nursery, Reception and Year 1 in the UK, and we put him into first grade when we moved back here last summer (because age-wise that's where he fit in). His MAPS scores were fine at in the fall, but went way down this spring. I'm shocked. I know he's bored in class and the work is not at all challenging, but I didn't see this coming.
My daughter is in 6th grade and her reading Map score is 245. According to the report I got from school this score is in the 98%. But I just saw a chart for 2008 and even at the end of the year that score should be in the 99%. Could someone please tell me which % this score actually belong to. Until now her reading score has been in the 99%. But in 6th grade for the first test she had a 242 and that too was in the 98%.
Thanks.
The norms have changed; there is an updated 2011 chart you should use. See link below, approx. p. 57. The 98th percentile appears to be the correct one.
2011 NWEA norms
Thank you so much. I have been looking for the new chart for a while now.Looks like the norms have gone up for all the subjects.
Yes, the new norms are presumably more accurate, and significantly higher than the old ones.
I was just going to add that my children have been doing the MAP tests for 3 1/2 years now, and each of them had what I would consider an outlier decline at one point, and then the trend continued upwards.
I have read somewhere that once you hit the highest levels, the tests aren't incredibly accurate. So if there's a chance that this is a one-time aberration, I wouldn't worry much about the decline, plus, there may be reason to question the accuracy (whether higher or lower than you were expecting) when you are in the 99%+ range.
Just keep providing great reading materials, and I'm sure they'll continue to grow.