Just curious as I am mulling over my DD6 appt tomorrow for WISC testing. I was considering what I thought the scores would reveal and I was just wondering how often parents are accurate at estimating level of giftedness in their children on their own. I suppose this only applies well to parents who have some knowledge of giftedness through reading or experience with other child. Anyone want to share what they thought the test results would be compared to what they were i.e. thought their child was MG but turned out to be HG or EG or whatever the case was.

I had no idea with my eldest. I had no idea with my second, until she was being tested and I could tell she was running out of questions in some sections and in another the tester said out loud "I've never seen that before".

Third child we won't test for at least a year and I am fascinated because I swing constantly between "she's at least as gifted... Definitely more gifted... who am I kidding she's not at all..."

Clearly im confused by my own kids, but I've pegged other people's kids within 5 points more than once...

My older son is 2e (Aspergers) and I often wonder if his scores would be higher if he wasn't so anxious and didn't have problems with novel situations like testing with a strange person. He tests gifted and qualifies for school services but he didn't blow the test away (and they didn't use a WISC or SB so I really have no idea how to compare RAIS, which is a really short test, scores to a WISC.

My younger son I denied that he was gifted for years. Then I accepted it. Then the school tested him on the K-ABC II (why this school system won't use a darn WISC is beyond me)...and he came out profoundly gifted...that I didn't believe. I had him tested at the college and the WISC was slightly lower (not enough to qualify for DYS but close) which was much more my inclination. I did not take the second testing into school and will continue to let them think he is profoundly gifted if they want to (not going to argue the point "my son isn't as smart as you think he is" is just a silly position to take).

I had my daughter tested. I was thinking she would test MG, and might possibly slide into HG territory on one index. I was shocked when even her full-scale was over the DYS cut, and her VCI and GAI were over one full standard deviation above the DYS cut.

It was DD's K teacher who first mentioned it. The more I had read about "gifted vs. bright" I was convinced that she just bright. (I have since learned that "bright" is more of a personality trait that can be found in HG kids as well.)
I had guessed she would come in the 100-120 range. Then the brief test they gave her in K at school had her pegged her around 115, which I was comfortable with. However, DD's teacher insisted that they do the full test, because she intuitively knew that number was too low.....DD's full test score was 30+ points higher than the brief test, with some of the sub tests jaw droppingly higher. Because the school's testing process was so slow, she was 5 when took the brief test in K and almost 7 when she took the full in first grade. Her young age could have been a factor for not performing well on the brief test.

Now that I have been around gifties of many levels I have come to get a feel for it. Something about the way they talk; its as if I can see their wheels turning? I was able to guess my younger DS's score within 5 points although his memory subtest was a shocker.

In anycase good luck with your testing. I hope your DD has fun! My DD didn't like the testing, she likes to know the answer. My DS loved it; he'd much prefer to play games and guess his way through life. LOL

...and try not to stress too much while you are waiting for the results :P

I had DD pegged at around 135. Her FSIQ on the RIAS came in at 138.

I thought my son would be around 145. His FSIQ on the RIAS was 155.

Sweetie, I often think the same thing you do - can the district just go with the gosh-darned WISC? I feel like we got so little information back from the RIAS. Although, we did consult with a psychologist who specializes in working with gifted kids and she said that the RIAS correlates to the WISC by about 15 points in either direction. Ummm. . .so he could be at 140 OR he could be at 170? I'm just going to go with 155 and call it a day. LOL

I thought DS9 had an iq of 130. But I sort of believed that his iq would come back closer to 120 and I would have to admit that I'd been wrong. FSIQ on the WISC was 141

Edited to add: I'm fairly certain that DS5 is not gifted at all and DH thinks I'm even further off in my estimation of him.

I am wondering the same thing as we are about to have my DS7 tested. The teacher who told me I was doing him a disservice not getting him tested told me that parents of gifted children are notorious for being wrong about their gifted child's abilities.

She said normally parents are right on - they know what their children can do, and what level they are/should be at in school, unless the child is gifted then they either way under or over estimate. She said if you think DS7 is MG (my assumption), he could easily be HG or PG, and you just think he is "a little ahead."

It was an eye opener for me and now I am very curious to find out if I am right or if he is going to surprise me. Since he has been surprising me since he was born I am preparing myself for a kick to the stomach

Good thread! I knew my youngest was gifted, hard to miss it. I was tested in elementary, think I had around 130FSIQ who knows what test, definitely a group school test, never private. My dh is very gifted, he recalls 160 as his #, again no idea what test..we do know his little brother got that perfect 1600 on the SAT and can play be ear also teaching himself three instruments on his own (piano, string bass and guitar). The history was there so we basically expected it! My oldest has never been very academic, much preferring sports but is an incredibly voracious reader. I figured he might be gifted but could just be very smart, I knew his younger brother was more likely DH. WISC-IVs on my oldest came out at 135, gifted but not crazy gifted. He's a TIPster and had Explore sub scores in DYS range in math and science. My youngest made DYS FSIQ of 143, hit a few ceilings so they probably should have run some extended tests but his portfolio got him in DYS.

So I knew one was gifted and thought maybe on the other...both were higher than I thought.

Shannon L.

With DD10, I had no idea. I was blown away when we got the WISC results back. She is 2E, so maybe this masked some of it? Or maybe, and most likely, we have a very warped sense of 'normal'? In any event, when we met with the tester for the results she showed us a bell curve and asked us to show her where we thought our DD tested. I placed my finger somewhere around 110-120. She took my hand and slid it to the end of the bell curve and, four years later, we still shake our heads some days.

DS4 had his testing last week and we are still awaiting the results. I am inclined to believe that he will be at least MG simply because of his sister. I realize that I can't be trusted to guess! Watching the testing, he did so much better than I ever anticipated. There were parts where I actually felt sorry for him and his 4 year old attention span because they went on for so long that even I was getting bored. I guess we will find out in two weeks!

I thought DD9 was probably gifted, maybe with a shot at DYS-level, but that her 2e characteristics would probably pull her down. Instead, she comfortably made DYS, with her GAI with extended norms quite a bit higher.

When DS11 was around preschool age, I thought he might be a happy, well-adjusted average kid. He was different from my eldest, who was twelve years older (also gifted) and from a previous marriage. Eldest wanted to do math problems, puzzles and asked endless questions. Youngest wasn't interested in coloring, writing, puzzles, and the only questions he asked were those concerning his current obsessions. In preschool, the teacher remarked he preferred to play by himself on the playground and he wasn't reading yet, though we read to him.

He entered Kindergarten and by the end of the year the Kindergarten teacher noted that he was "worldly" among other things, and she started the works for testing the following year. He almost didn't get in to the gifted program because he was just short of the cutoff (I think he needed to be 99% or 98% and he was one percent under). His teacher's assistant brought up the fact he seemed to be beyond grade level in math and they tested him in math, though that wasn't the norm. He was added to the gifted pullout program soon after. He had some emotional "symptoms" of giftedness, which helped us to be more understanding, but really, for a long, long, time I thought he was very bright, but not necessarily more than that. EXCEPT, in 2nd grade he was able to write a story and read it aloud with amazing confidence, and he was able to sing solo in 2nd grade with inflection and character and seemingly no uneasiness. And then in 3rd he was writing amazing stories, stories I would type for him because his writing abilities were not up to the level of his mind. And he made movies. So...glimpses of giftedness, but I didn't think much more about it.
Then in 5th he took an above-level test called EXPLORE, and slowly, after researching what his DYS-level results meant, it dawned on me that maybe we'd been letting our ds coast through school with little effort and receiving too-little support from us. He'd by then learned to be hindered by his perfectionist tendencies, and I did wonder if the explore results were a fluke, but when the school tested him months later, the WISC backed up the explore results, right down to the higher verbal than math. (Ironically it was the reverse when he was first identified)
So I guess I'm one of those who didn't really know, and when I did, I didn't realize how gifted and how asynchronous his abilities were. When I had the information in my hands, things started making sense.

There is an article somewhere on Hoagies that I read when investigating what we saw with DS several years ago that says parents are actually very good predictors of giftedness but perhaps that is at the more extreme ranges rather than normal levels of gifted?

With DS at first we thought he was smart, sort of regular gifted like his parents. Then thought must not be seeing what I think I am seeing. Then was scared of what I was seeing. Then got him tested first at 4.5 then at 6. Both times he got DYS scores but you could also see what we now know at his 2e issues. Lower scores in areas we wouldn't have expected as he presents as more globally gifted, although he has his areas where he just blows you away.

He actually took a 3rd test - and had an ear infection blow up in the middle of it - had a fever by the end of testing and ended up a standard dev lower overall, but bizarrely still got the hard questions right but kept getting the easy ones wrong. The psych was so frustrated by him, thought he had a real attitude problem until we met to discuss a week later and explained that he had a 104 fever!! Funny though that being ill makes him intolerant of simple q's rather than unable to figure out harder ones!

So I guess we kind of always knew but the scores put a label on him that at first was wow that's cool and impressive, then wow that's scary cause it will need a lot of help, then hey it's just who he is. Although in some areas I don't think the scores really captured what he can do, but it's just a test so how could it.

DeHe

We always figured gifted, as DH and I both are comfortably into HG range.

But our lack of experience with child development meant that we didn't know just HOW far out there she was. At first.

We still don't, actually-- not having had any individual IQ testing to go by. On the other hand, she comfortably sails over CTY, TIP, and EPGY requirements at 3-7 years beyond her chronological age, and has since she was 5-6yo. So she's clearly at least EG, and probably PG, which is what we've figured since-- it wasn't the age at which she started reading (which is late by HG standards, even); it was the rate at which she transitioned to mastery. Her reading level has been about what a college-educated adult could muster since about 18 months after she learned to decode. Since she was about 7, she has read even adult level material with downright preternatural speed.

I'm piping up here because we weren't necessarily in denial. If anything, we found the prospect of just how gifted a little... disquieting... when we thought about it too hard. I wanted her to be a kid first, and a side show attraction not at all, and I suspected that having the number would launch her into freakshow status. I didn't want to know because it might change how we saw her. To be clear, though-- DD is evidently "simple" gifted-- meaning that she has no 2e matters muddying those waters, and she is not terribly ACADEMICALLY asynchronous, so in terms of accommodation, it wasn't necessary to know in order to know what to do with her.

I don't think that having the number would have led to better accommodation or advocacy, anyway. It's always been quite clear to the schools just what she is, too. They can SEE that she's a PG kid by her performance. It's just that (locally) they can't really do much in the way of authentically appropriate instruction for PG kids.

My FSIQ estimates on my DD started at about 140 when she was a toddler-- but I have had to revise them upwards several times during her lifetime. I think that we're probably fairly accurate on the basis of what she actually chooses to SHOW us, mind-- because the majority of people in her extended family have been tested using a S-B tool at one point or another, and so we have genetically-related examples ranging from 98 up through 168-174. So we have a better idea than a lot of people what the numbers can mean in a functional sense, and what they don't. Nobody in my family or my DH's has cured cancer or won a Nobel Prize, but there are definitely patterns of social distress, multipotentiality gone wrong, perfectionism, existential struggles, etc. Now at 14, I'd place her toward the very top end of that range in a functional sense, and fortunately, her personality is not dissimilar to the two individuals in that range (one on my side, one on her dad's). That has been helpful in terms of knowing what she might need help with, and why. But in a functional sense, we only see what she chooses to demonstrate on any given day, too, and mostly that leads to underestimation.

It may be interesting to see what that value actually is at some point. It's possible that she's +4 or +5 and not +3 standard deviations like we think, but in any case, that leads us into waters that are merely "slightly more uncharted" from a place where the navigational directions aren't so good to start with, so from a parenting standpoint, it matters little from what I can tell. She's a singularity either way.

That one always bugs me, because the research the article talks about has parents fill out a specific questionaire that has questions that correlate to giftedness. Distinctly different than asking a parent how gifted their kid is.

We knew DS was gifted, but without a huge personal sample size of same age kids or rock solid benchmarks, there is really no way to know how far out there. Before his school started talking about the highly gifted program (which got me to find this site,) LoG wasn't really something I thought about beyond "a gifted program will get him the right material."

As to the IQ results, I was disappointed to find out that the psychologist was inexperienced with it (SB-V) and had some disdain for it. His testing was a bit below the qualifiers for the HG program, but there was a huge pattern of depressed scores(> -1SD) where vision is a key component (half the SB-V is non-verbal.)

But I'm still surprised at his achievement score >160 in math as I've always been more impressed with his language skills. And I'm still interested in getting the WISC done, the only good motivation for it being needing a higher IQ score to qualify for Epsilon Camp.

I think there's no contradiction in parents having a very good idea of their child's abilities, but not be able to convert this to a score or percentile ranking, because they don't have a good handle on what the general population is like.

I pegged our kiddo at mildly to mabye possibly the lower end of highly gifted, because in my head profoundly gifted meant prodigy. Very surprised and kind of freaked out by how much we underestimated.

I am SOOO tempted to get DS5 (turned 5 today) tested! But I'm trying to wait till he starts Kindergarten next week and has some interest in reading. We know he's all around super sharp, very mathy kid but lacks any interest in reading / writing and I've had a suspicion he might have some issues in that area (dyslexia if I was to take a wild guess) so we're waiting to see what Kindergarten brings. I'm thinking he's got to be at least 130-135 but wouldn't be surprised if a tester came back with 145. If it comes in lower, fine with us. We KNOW he's very bright and nothing like other kids we know.
With DS3.5, we have no idea what to think and no idea how to test him. He's seriously 2E and while he acts like a little genius at home, he acts like a kid with IQ70 (and I might be overestimating) in public and in social situations. He might never (in the next 5 or 10 years) be willing and able to perform and I just don't see how they could test him. Unless there will be an IQ test that we can install on my Kindle, give it to him and pick it up in his room in the morning. He does not understand or ignores?) the most BASIC concepts in daily life, but seems to comprehend very complex problems. So, yeah, NO idea. If he didn't have 2E issues, I'd say 140-160 but the way he is, there's absolutely no way of telling and no chance he'll cooperate ... for now.

Yes. Same here.

That prodigy word is a killer. It calls to mind those kids being paraded on tv for doing something so astonishing. And at 3 I was saying, well it's not like he's going to be one of those college students at 10. Well fast forward a few years and I am starting to wonder if I will need to do that for science. But even saying that I still don't think prodigy. The media has made the word feel creepy to me.

DeHe

But even before the modern media, (IMO) people like Herr Leopold Mozart had given it a bad name, quite honestly.

Cringe-worthy, though. That's how I think of that term.

We all thought that it was adorable when my then-preschooler was telling anyone who would listen to her that she was going to go to college at 12.

It was cute until it started to look (at 6 or so) like she meant to do just that. Then it was scary. I don't want to be Doogie Houser's mom.

Put me with the vastly underestimators. I knew ds6 was bright but I thought he was round 120 to 135 kind of range. 158 no that must be wrong. Ds4 though - he is probably about the same but there are some things that make me think it will be higher. Probably though they just have different strengths and ds4 has an older brother to teach him stuff (but much less input from me).

I overestimated my DD, but they used the RIAS, and she tanked one of 4 sections and also refused to guess. She scored MG, in the 130s, but I think she is a bit higher. Not DYS.

It may more be that she is very well-rounded and achievement-oriented, with a very good memory.

I think her brother is HG, but again not DYS. I'd really like to get him tested on the WISC, but the RIAS seems to be what the schools use here.

I overestimated. I thought DS (6 year old) would be 155+ because there are 2 other family members who scored in that range. His score came in the 140s. He was tested at 4 years. Not DYS material as per that score.
I was also told that he was very chatty during the test and took a long time to get to the point (lower processing speed because of that), did not know how to read some words that were shown to him (he started reading at 4.5 years old), he had an undiagnosed color blindness at that time and he easily says "I don't know" when his attention flags. I am hoping to test him in the next year again to see if the new scores are higher or lower than last time!

I had dd when I was comparatively young and so, without friends' kids to compare against I only had parenting books and their milestones. She so obviously didn't fit them. Worried at first I started looking for reasons why and came across giftedness. I only allowed my self to acknowledge that she'd likely be 135ish, but she turned out to have a FSIQ comfortably above 99.9%, with a higher still VCI.

We had no idea. Like all parents, we thought our daughter was smart.
it wasn't until she started reading (4 yrs. old) and comprehending what she was reading that I started to wonder. There isn't anything she can't read and comprehend. Her favorite book is the dictionary. What was more amazing to me is DD's memory. She's got the memory of an elephant!

From the time she wakes she's asking questions and reading books...there are books everywhere in our house! But, her asynchronous issues with emotions, sensitivity and perfectionism some days shine through quite strongly.

I nearly fell of the sofa when the Child Psychologist told us her score, specifically her verbal score of 148. While her FSIQ is 133, DD had difficulty understanding the importance of not talking during the timed portions, the psychologist thought her scores would be higher still under better circumstances. I was guessing in the 120's, but really had no idea. All of this is so very new to us, that we are just trying to understand who she is and what sort of educational environment might be best for her.
We mainly had the testing done (at the suggestion of her preschool teacher) so that the school see where she was at and maybe take us seriously!

What an interesting thread!

I overestimated or tested too early, one or the other. I thought my kid would be dys so I got testing. It came back "above average to highly intelligent" (mg/hg?) with only one high spike on a reading achievement subtest. DAS-11 & WIAT. His low math achievement shocked me. Are more than 10% of almost six year olds really able to do word problems, knows about fractions, +-/x? Last year I broke a donut in half and gave him half and ate half of my daughters side before I gave it to her. He said, "I get 1/2, you get 1/4, she gets 1/4." I thought most little kids would call that thirds, since we all got one piece. He learned about fractions from that book "Apple Fractions", and I learned how to bake an apple pie to make it more fun.

Oh well, the one thing I've completely taught him yet was phonics and that spiked at 99.8% achievement. So either his IQ hasn't bloomed yet, or I'm just that good of a teacher.
fwiw, he has a couple generations of family members who tested on the eg/pg border. I am aware of regression to the mean and the pitfall of unrealistic expectations. I'm not sure if this is that, or immaturity/late bloomer. I also believe in Carol Dwecks incremental theory of intelligence, maybe he just needs time to mature. I highly value his education, either way.

This is my first post here about this and it happened a few months ago.
Since I've been the one teaching him it didn't really change how I'm going to keep teaching him, but the results just mean he doesn't qualify for any kind of DYS or MENSA consultant.

Gardengirl you remind me of when I gave my dd6 a dictionary a couple years ago. She was ecstatic. She insisted on decorating a special box to keep it in to protect it and wanted to sleep with it and take it with her in a backpack to the park. It was hilarious. Thankfully she eased up a bit as it us a big dictionary. I had forgotten about that.

I didn't guess a number for my daughter per se, but I knew my IQ was somewhere in the mid 140s and I knew that she was smarter than me, certain things she did would just astound me. When she was 4, we signed her up for testing for a preschool gifted program. They spend 10 minutes and asked questions about animals which she couldn't answer (They should have asked her about tools). The didn't have her read or anything and told us her IQ was 115. I knew that was wrong. Her school takes the OLSAT and that came in the high 130s in 1st Grade and I knew that was wrong. 3rd and 4th grade it came in at the high 140s. Knowing the compression on that test, and needing more ammunition to advocate for her,even with my husband(her unbelievable EXPLORE scores weren't enough, which actually was the point where I was actually blown away and a then a little scared), I finally had WISC-IV done. Her GAI was 155 which made much more sense to me given what i had seen and here we are getting started with DYS.

I had a hard time estimating, although thinking back I know I was probably in denial. DS was incredibly advanced, reciting "The Jungle Book" dialogue by typing it all on the computer with near to perfect spelling/punctuation at age 3.10. I just didn't know if he were just a high achiever with a somewhat high IQ or actually way out there IQ wise. I can't say I was surprised when I found out he was well into the PG range.

Higher.

Back when he was a baby and toddler and preschoolers, I thought all the milestone books were written for the very, very lowest performing child since he was years ahead by the time he was two. I thought the ages listed on toys, especially games and legos were disregarded by everyone because they were so off. There wasn't a time when my son couldn't put together lego sets (although he probably didn't get his first one until he was about 3). He's been the computer expert in the house since he was about 6.

Still we were shocked when he scored 99s on his gifted entrance exams (CoGat). But it wasn't until 4th grade that we started to really wonder, when he did so well on the EXPLORE. That's when we had the IQ test. By the time, I had no doubt he would have DYS scores, but even so, I was shocked at how high they were.

See I always thought there were three parts to the age range. Part one...are the pieces choking/swallowing hazards and are my kids especially prone to putting stuff in their mouth? Part two...can they physically manipulate the parts/pieces or get it spatially? Part three can they understand the game/toy intellectually? (and then on the other end of the spectrum have they outgrown it or is it too juvenile for their taste no matter what the age range says).

I found I started with the age guideline and then either threw it out or found it right on depending on the toy and the child.

No idea as not tested - but I will add that up until a year ago and the finding of this site, I simply thought that DS was ahead and smart, but really had no idea what IQ numbers meant, and never thought of him in terms of that. And as far as ages on toys - I too thought that meant, hey this is just a choking hazard, so for liability we have to mark it for a much older child. Or, wow, they are really off on their estimates of what a child will like/read/use. But there is no way I would have been even close to a guess had I not started reading heavily on this forum, and many gifted children books. Now I feel like a have a fairly good feel for it, and if we choose to test him, I am curious to see how close I will come to the number too.

Funny you mentioning that, I remember thinking variants of the same thought like - it must be a marketing ploy and they put those ridiculous ages on everything to make everyone think their kids are advanced LOL

I had no idea of what to expect with DD - I was never tested and neither was DW - in fact I actually believed all of the 'anti-Bell Curve / Jay Gould' pseudo science that insisted that IQ testing is a sham. We only tested as a recommended means of trying to understand why our happy and outgoing DD was encountering peer rejection.

I always wondered why jigsaw puzzles were so wildly incorrectly labelled. And the. Why I got weird looks for the jigsaw puzzles I gave for 2nd/3rd birthday gifts.

DS in response to the listed age on a game: "I'm age defying."

Way over.
I know my number and some of my family members; I figured I had a feel for where she fit in that range - 145-155 by the S-B we were tested with in the 80s. This was supported by all the baby milestones, toy age ranges, etc. We have a close-knit group of friends that provide peers for us, and their kids are good peers for mine.

She was individually tested at school at the end of third grade - a truly awful year. By all accounts she loved the testing and had a great time. And scored a solid, even, remarkably well-rounded 130. Respectable, but not what I thought.

I'm still scratching my head. At activities for gifted kids, she consistently wows the group leaders with the depth and complexity of her ideas. I would not expect this reaction from the adults if she barely made the cutoff for the group! But are my expectations just those of a mama who likes her smart kid, or was the test (DAS-II) off? And does it matter, really? I guess I just hoped the number would tell me something true and useful, and I'm not sure this one did.

Ljoy, the test could well be off, it dounds like it might be, but keep in mind that 145 now is around 170-180 on the SB testing if the 80s...

LOL, I remember telling someone very sincerely that jigsaw puzzles were rated for choking risk and picture interest. And I was quite surprised to find that lego ratings are more accurate (comes down to persistence for my kids).

I gave some apparently inappropriate puzzles to friends kids, too.

Well you know my 2yr old was doing 8yr old puzzles, so it seemed really safe to give 4yr old puzzles for 2nd/3rd birthdays right? And maybe insulting to give the crazy easy ones :-)... Interestingly my third child is not nearly so advanced with puzzles (or maybe just doesn't have the interest to develop the skill) but is more advanced than her sisters were with lego...

ljoy, my kid stands out in her GT program. She's in a FT gifted program where all the kids are 130+. She's just not a lot above that. I dunno.

I have one that goes here given the direction of the posts. As I said, I knew my daughter was smarter than me but just not how much smarter than me especially what that meant compared to other kids, especially because I didn't really accept my brain for myself.

Last year, I did a camp at my church that including a mix for Mind, Body, and Spirit for kids 9-15. For one segment, I decided to do a Logic Puzzle since I had shown one to my daughter and she picked it up easily and enjoyed them. I took one as a guide and changed it to fit facts about the Minor Prophets (since I figured it was something they wouldn't know already anyway without solving the puzzle). The kids were pretty much all Honors or Gifted kids that made As and Bs at worst. I figured since she, at 9, could do the 4x5 puzzles. Surely, at least the 14-15 year olds could partner with the younger ones and do a 4x4 puzzle within a whole hour. Nope, epic fail! She and her partner who was 11 figured it out first, and I had to give 5 more hints before anyone else finished.

Thanks, ultramarina and MumofThree. Good to remember both that numbers aren't really comparable between tests of different eras, and that what a test measures and what a human observes aren't always the same.

I have an older DD who is MG and my younger DD is above and beyond her older sister. So I know that younger DD would be in PG range. The WISC IV confirmed it.

She has no 2E issue and synchronous development academically (Math, reading and writing) and I was able to compare with her older sister. So it was easy to see and guesstimate.

I thought that my son might be mildly gifted (130is range)- he did most cognitive tasks earlier than the typical milestones with a strong grasp of mathematical concepts. Turns out he is highly to exceptionally gifted. FSIQ 141, GAI 146.

Chalk us up in the clueless category! We also thought gifted meant "genius" or "prodigy". We thought more along the lines of Doogie Howser or a 3 year old that knows all the states and capitals or can tell you everything about every dinosaur that roamed the Earth. To us the probability of being gifted was very rare and it was not how we viewed our girls.

We knew both girls were smart and very inquisitive, but we didn't really compare them to other kids. I read the books on appropriate age development and basically ignored them because both girls were always ahead. The pediatrician would ask about some of those same age developments and we would tell her the girls had already hit the markers. She would ask how many words they knew, or have the girls jump on one foot or draw a picture of themselves, etc, then she would tell us we were doing a good job and to keep it up. We just patted ourselves on the back and kept going. We did a Parents As Teachers program with our 1st child, which runs from birth to 3 years of age. The lady would bring in blocks for DD9 to play with and we would let DD9 put together a jigsaw puzzle to show her. She also told us we were doing a good job and to keep it up. We didn't waste our time and do this program again with our 2nd child. We thought when the girls starting reading around 3-4 years old it was because they both went to pre-school for 2 years. We thought most, if not all, the kids were reading at least by the 2nd year of pre-school. Now we know that we were just assuming this and we were wrong.

DD9 was tested at the end of 1st grade, after she just turned 7. We weren't even looking at IQ necessarily, but were trying to get answers regarding her behaviors in school. When the testers explained where her IQ was at on the bell curve (which we also knew nothing about) and how she hit the ceiling in several sub-tests we were floored. They told us they hadn't seen anyone her age score so high on the memory sub-tests. Now that was something we could believe because sometimes it seemed like she had a photographic memory. DH and I just always joked that we had to make sure we followed through on what we said since she would definitely remember.

We had hoped to get DD7 tested at the end of last school year, but we got stuck on a waiting list and will hopefully get her in sometime during the 1st semester this school year. DD7 is very different from DD9, but now that we know more about what being gifted is like, I would say DD7 is also up there somewhere. I also wonder about possible stealth dyslexia or slow processing speed with DD7 because she gets it, but sometimes it takes quite a while and she is still turning letters and numbers around. I will have to post again once we get her results to see how close my estimate is with her.

Looking back, we had several indicators and several people that should have clued us in, if they had any idea about giftedness themselves. We just didn't even know we should be looking in the first place.

While not Doogie Howser, my 3/4yo did know all the states and capitals and could tell you everything about zillions of ocean creatures. I don't think he will test much above 140 (just basing this on comparison with his sister and where she tested). Some kids are just more into the whole "knowledge sponge" thing, I think.

On what scale is 130+ "mildly gifted" and 141 is "highly to exceptionally gifted"?

He still has time to become the next Doogie if he wants to!

I totally agree about the sponge thing. All those incessant, infernal questions they ask us about all the time - they actually absorb and recall the answers. Ahhhmazing! LOL!

You probably understood that him knowing all those things is unusual, since you had his older sister to compare to, right? That helps you come up with the 140ish estimate. What did you know about giftedness prior to your daughter?

Dude, on current IQ tests the tail is so compressed that 130 / 98th is usually considered the started if gifted (MG) while 138 / 99th is generally considered the start of HG and 145 / 99.9th is HG+/EG/PG (depending on who you speak to). My DD has a FSIQ of 146, I'll refer to her as HG+, but not EG or PG because I really think that 146 is accurate, not a failure of the test to measure how far beyond that she is, where as there are plenty of kids on this board who may have the same score but could have gone way beyond that with more test. But that is ultimately the problem wih modern tests and the Hg+, it's fairly well impossible to distinguish beyond 145, or even possibly a bit below that for a quirky kid who misses some "easy" early questions. What 145 is mostly telling you is "beyond the test's ability to measure accurately" (within the realm of assuming the test is accurate in the first place).

If you look at the technical reports of the SB5 there are charts showing scores for kids that did the SB5 and the LM and kids testing 140+ mostly tested in the 170-180 range on the LM.

Thanks for that. I know a lot of confusion gets generated here because people are using the same terminology to refer to different things. It also doesn't help that MG can stand for "mildly gifted" or "moderately gifted," which I consider two very different things. I normally refer to my DD8 as MG, by which I mean the second thing, and she'd just clear the hurdle to HG according to your scale.

Minor correction: 135 is the 99th and 140 is slightly past the 99.6th on a test with a 15 point standard deviation (see this link). As has been noted here, people have different definitions of levels of giftedness. I tend to think of HG as the 140 mark, as it includes a minority (slightly less than 20%) of gifted people. Drawing the HG line at the 99th percentile would include the top half of gifties, which could also be a definition of HG, albeit more liberal.

The numbers are all kind of fuzzy anyway, and would presumably vary if you test the same person on different occasions.

Thanks of the correction Val, I should have double checked.

The tester we used starts attaches the HG appendix on the report at 140, EG at 150, I've never heard of them giving any child a PG appendix (and know only one that got the EG appendix, plenty with the HG). They use the SB5, so clearly have different views to the chart on Hoagies that gets linked to often.

My favorite topic. My DS9 was id'd by the District back in 1st grade when he was 6. (OLSAT) Given his lack of (as this thread is referring to it!) Doogie Howser qualities, I assumed he'd barely squeaked in so I had him sit for the WISC-IV right after he turned 8. 144 FSIQ/151 GAI. Not quite like some of the superhuman kids of the folks on this board, but enough to overwhelm me for a brief time.

I don't think that every EG/PG/whatever person has Doogie Howser-like qualities, though the media and even a few books about giftedness perpetuate that idea (err, myth IMO). Everyone is different. Plus, factors unrelated to cognitive ability play roles. Take motivation, which isn't necessarily tied to giftedness.


As an example, my HG or HG+ eldest started rolling over when he was only 2 months old (well ahead of schedule). It wasn't because he's smart. It was because, as we realized, he hated sleeping on his back.

He wasn't a huge talker (still isn't), though he was somewhat ahead of the curve. But my second son: he was and is a YAKKER. He started talking sooner than the first and his sentences were way more sophisticated at the same ages. IMO, this was because he had a lot to say, and my eldest didn't. So, motivation was presumably a large part of what was driving him, as his IQ isn't higher than the first son's.

BTW, the second kid hated being on his tummy. He'd cry, so we just stopped positioning him that way. He never rolled over. When he was 4 months old, I put him on his tummy to see what would happen. Presto! He rolled over and then started playing with his toes.

Sometimes motivation is key.

I agree-- it's also downright startling to realize just how much some HG+ kids are capable of showing you what you need/want to see. Even parents and teachers who know them VERY well can easily be fooled by some kids who are super-perceptive super-authority pleasing types.

My DD absolutely does NOT come across as Doogie-bright; most of the people who know her in real life know that she is "super-smart" but have NO idea just how smart. Honestly, we don't really know either. All we know is that what we've tried to challenge her with so far-- hasn't. Not even remotely, in most instances.

Would it change my opinion if she were tested and found to have a FSIQ lower than 150? Probably not. I'd probably chalk that up to having something weird going on that got in the way of testing, because in practical terms, we've seen those flashes of "OMG--WOW" often enough to know that she's the real deal. Which is why we haven't bothered.

Motivation. Yes. And think carefully about what it means when your child is motivated to please others. "Please" means a lot of different things, doesn't it? A kindergarten teacher that expresses age-normed expectations certainly isn't "pleased" when those expectations aren't met, now, is s/he?

Some kids are complete and total chameleons socially-- they give everyone they know a slightly different version of themselves, and try to aim for the one that is most useful in the relationship.


My DD gives people what makes them feel comfortable and allows them to be relaxed and open. What that means in functional terms is that pretty much NOBODY sees all the way down. No way is being with a PG person in full intellectual flight a "comfortable" experience. Exhilarating, maybe-- but not relaxing or comfortable. So that isn't who she is for others.

Hi Dude,
The scale that I worked from is from the Hoagies website for the WISC IV (attached). Highly gifted (on that site is 138+ FSIQ). There is a lot of explanation about the General Ability Index, but 2 main points 1) it includes only the verbal and perceptual scores (both considered most closely associated with gifted) and 2) is recommended when the processing and/or working memory is far below (20 something points or more) the highest score. My son received a low processing score in relation to high verbal score. The National Association for Gifted Children wrote a position statement about the WISC IV.

http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/highly_profoundly.htm

http://nagc.org/index.aspx?id=2455

Labels aside, the subtest results are the most telling when it comes to strengths and challenges. In our house, my son's verbal reasoning operates like a Ferrari, and his processing operates like a Honda (good and reliable but not fast).

That 146 GAI has been important because it explains some of DS's frustrations (and he's six:). For instance, he took a timed math test on our computer this morning (for fun!) and had 2 meltdowns because he couldn't spit it out quickly and get the "high" score. This kind of thing happens three times a week, and he hasn't started formal homework yet!

As the years pass, I think the 141 FSIQ and high subtest scores are close to accurate- his educational psychologist was highly experienced both in testing and in public school gifted programs. His lower processing speed is probably accurate, and not "performance anxiety" based on what I see at home.

Additionally, DS has exceptional reasoning skills - taught himself how to do 2 digit to 1 digit multiplication in kindergarten (at 6AM because he woke up excited about math), was able to do double digit addition and subtraction in his head by age 4 and can read virtually anything that interests him (anywhere else this would be obnoxious bragging- here, it's considered "average!"). He's not teaching himself calculus, or writing symphonies, or inventing something to fund his early retirement plan. So, 150+ is probably off the table.

cammom's post also brings up one of the many things that can influence how "gifted" a child seems. When you think of "gifted" as "prodigy" or even just "remembering all the states at 2", "learning times tables at 3", or on being "really fast" - these are all skills that are dependent on gifted to VERY gifted working memory and/or processing speed, as well as interest in the sorts of things that draw that sort of attention.

Children who are truly gifted at reasoning, but not necessarily gifted in terms of WMI, PSI, and/or are not academically/fact collection inclined as small children are less likely to appear overtly gifted. It's a lot easier to underestimate how unusual a child's vocabulary is for a 2 or 3 or 4 yr old, or how unusual their ability to argue their side of a negotiation is, than it is to overlook them delving deeply into science, memorizing countries of the world, playing the violin precociously, etc. What if your gifted reasoner doesn't bother to talk much either, because they are too busy in their own heads?

I agree completely with the comments on Doogie Howser qualities. I should note that my ignorance regarding expectations of such qualities predated my exposure to this board. I have learned much from the people on this board so I didn't make the same mistake with my DD who is going into 1st grade and just turned 6 yesterday. Her teacher recommended District testing for the GT program and, although she is quite a different creature than my DD9, I certainly didn't hold to my prior stereotypes, so I agreed. She tested in as well. I don't know if I will have her sit for IQ testing. I don't see a need in the near term future unless things change.

Yeah, this is a conclusion I've come to. Though DD wasn't tested with a test that measures WM or processing speed, it's clear that hers are very high. This may make her "look" more gifted than she maybe is, although after a certain point I'm not sure what the point is of trying to figure this all out.

Thank you for putting this into words. I have repeatedly seen my gifted child trying to "blend" in with kids around him to gain acceptance in his social circle and just be considered "one of those guys" so that he can "fit in". It ranges from reluctance to answer a question in the classroom when the teacher introduces a topic that is not new to him to "dumbing down" his sentences and grammar and vocabulary to sound just like someone else who is the "popular" guy in his circle of friends.
Yes, they are chameleons and know what to show others ...