Because we can't have enough of them.

Vent warning!!

I'm getting harassed in some community type work I do, and at first I thought it was me, you know the intensity and things. But when I was talking to my mum about it and now I see that yes, I think a lot of it is nastiness because she has a child around the same age who isn't doing the things that mine is. I have never bragged or anything. She doesn't even know half the stuff he does (I haven't told them he reads, for example), but he is very verbal while her child is not very verbal yet and things like that.

There is a lot of passive aggressive nastiness in things like emails, and evidence of gossiping and nasty comments behind my back, but nothing I can say much about without looking like I'm overreacting. I'm trying to 'screen it out' and walk away with dignity - plus not give her the satisfaction of knowing she got to me - but to do that I also have to give up my role. Which I am willing to do, but I still am annoyed about it.

There isn't anything I expect anyone can do, I just wanted to vent. Why do people have to be so nasty? Why do they have to turn it into a competition?

I hear ya! I remember purposely trying NOT to show my DC's abilities because of this very reason. It's a shame you often feel you need to hide their true colors for fear of being accused of showing off or whatever. Don't let it get to you

(((HUGS))) Just going through something similar with my neighbor (again!) today. I just do my best to stay away from her as much as possible so I don't have to let her negativeness replay over and over in my mind like I do every time I have to be around her. I don't need that kind of negativity in my life, and neither do you!

It really is a sad story that most of us have experienced. The best thing to do is walk away and not waste energy. I tried to change my approach to my 'friend' to take the competition aspect out of it ... but she was soooo competitive and passive aggressive. Better off not having her in my life and probably better for her as well.

But please feel free to vent away on here ... I completely understand your frustration.

I hear ya! This year I made a conscious decision not to "hide it" anymore. However, it has taken 8 years to get to that point and I have learned not to let "those people" get to me. I also got fed up with others bragging about their children's athletic abilities or other talents that I made a decision not to hide my own child's talents. While I don't brag about it, it's not a secret. Also, as I navigate the special issues of having a GT child, I have learned who my true friends are as they are the ones who take the time to listen and offer support. Because of that I have been able to meet and get to know other kids & parents in a similar situation as my own.

that is awful GeoMamma. What is with the obsession with comparing children and deciding that the order/speed at which a child develops determines their value? And the defensiveness and nastiness! I just don't understand. Is there anyone connected to the work you do who may be sympathetic to your what is going on? Harassment is just not on.

Thanks everyone, it is good to know I'm not alone.

GreenGully, unfortunately, I am the one 'in charge' and she hasn't been obvious enough that I can point to it and say "That isn't on". Just lots of little niggly things, but just about constant. Every few days I get an email, asking to change something, or to do something, and as I said, lots of evidence that there are remarks behind my back, but nothing again I can point to without looking like I'm just being silly.

TBH, I could fight it, but I don't see the point. To continue in my role, I would need to continue to deal with these people all the time and have them in my home, and it isn't worth it. I don't need it and my children don't need it. So moving away from it all is a much better idea. Plus, as I said before, I don't want to give them the satisfaction that they got to me.

Green eyed monsters are everywhere, but it hurts most when it affects our little ones!

Oh GeoMamma -
This is so disappointing. Of course at some point your are going to need to walk away - but - since you love your position, I would suggest a few wild ideas to try first, so that you can get what you need to get out of the situation first.
The first thing I would try is to start bragging about your child. Let the other mom know every little thing - not in a mean way, aim for genuine, but err on the side of 'blowing her out of the water.' That will shift things and doesn't cost you anything.

Second thing is to try to strengthen your inner self. You can use prayer, journaling, venting, meditation. I'm reading/listening to this book now

http://www.energizeyourheart.com/Buy.html

Their approach for us sensitive-hearted people is to protect ourselves by learning how to super-nurture ourselves - welcoming this sort of stress so we can use it as inspiration to grow our 'self-nurturing' ability stronger and stronger.

I think it would look like this: You get an email asking to change something. You skim it, just to check, meanwhile self-talking and deep breathing that you affirm your own ability to lead well. Then you ask yourself for any intuition about how to respond. You may find that you can learn to see beyond the surface of the email.

Or you can just respond: Thanks for the email. Things are very good the way they are and we aren't making that change. Thanks for all the work you do on this project.

Short and sweet. You can end with - Please excuse me, but my child wants to read 'Horton hears a Who' to me now.

At some point we can always walk away, but our children will be in school situations where they may not be able to walk away so easily. So it's a useful sensitizing experience. Dealing with a certain level of low level nastiness is a good life skill. ((Humor Alert))How else would we stay married?

I hope this helps,
Grinity

I'm so sorry about what has happened. DH is a genius himself (a humble one), and while proud of the kids, he doesn't usually brag too much about them to the friends. I'd say I'm about average, so I guess I'm a bit more "impressed" with the kids, but I've learned also to keep my mouth shut. Our best friends from church have a daughter who is my daughter's best friend (to a certain extent) who is in special education math, and all regulars other than that, so DD and her on are much different levels. Since they are older than your child (DD is 14, friend is 15), it is very obvious. I guess that has made me more careful of what I say. I mean, it would be severely bragging to tell that my daughter scored a 1920 on the SAT in the 7th grade, when her daughter getting a 920 on the SAT in 11th grade might be a miracle. Yet her daughter knows almost everyone at our church, while DD only has a few close friends who are very intelligent (one was the *winner* of the national geographic bee a few years ago!), and she's afraid to get to know anyone else, because they might think she is nerdy because of her intelligence. Sure, she's smart, but am I really bragging a bunch when a lot of other emotional strain gets added on with her extreme intelligence? I will say that her the family knows DD is very bright, and not very social, and they are *very* kind about the situation. I do know that her mom encourages the daughter to help "include" DD, which, though it might not be exactly what DD wants, I think it is extremely kind that they are trying. I guess this wasn't really much of a reply, but rather a further vent/note.

It doesn't ever work, understanding from "live" friends, or shall I say acquaintances. Can't they accept that kids can be different and not take it personally?

Hugs to you, Geomamma. I'm in the camp of walking away, because I just don't have the energy/personality type to fight.

It makes me so sad that the answer is to walk away. I wish there was another way. But you need to do what is better for you and your family.

Relatedly, I find that I am automatically changing the way I interact with DS friends parents. We are currently struggling with decisions about DS 4.5 future, considering moving to get him better access to gifted programs. I have a terrific friend who was a friend before I had DS and I needed to talk to her to get my head straight and she has been super supportive and not defensive or judgmental at all and she has a 5.5 year old but even with her I found myself eventually using euphemisms and unfinished sentences to avoid saying things like he's reading on the 6th grade level. I find myself
getting quieter and quieter with parents of age peers. Sigh

DeHe

Hugs to everyone who has experienced this. I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one.

Well, you have certainly given me something to think about, Grinity I read your reply just before I went to bed and I thought I needed to think about it before I answered. Well, I couldn't sleep very well! I'm not sure about increasing my 'vocality' of my DS's achievements. The community is relatively small and to mention it to her, well, I might as well broadcast it. I'm not sure I'm ready for the ramifications of that. I did think of a very good way to respond to the latest 'thing', and it borders on what you were talking about. So thanks.

I always worry that responding to those underhanded things makes me 'stoop to their level'...

And thank you to all those who understood the 'walk away' feeling, because I needed to know it wasn't just me who felt that way.

Will be doing a lot of thinking...

Thanks GeoMamma - I wasn't sure if you needed 'afflict the comfortable or comfort the afflicted' just then.
I do think that it's always possible to respond to underhanded things in a 'higher road' sort of way. I love what Suzette Haden Elgin has to say about our choices in communication.
My point is that you always have multiple choices about how you communicate anything.

It's a tough bird that won't melt under: You know Jean, this project is very important to me, and I so value the contribution you make to it. Still I'm getting the feeling that I am making you uncomfortable in some way. Can you help me understand what is going on between us?

If you can muster that level of sincerity and love then anything can happen. Humor helps too.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

Yes, Grinity, it was great food for though - comfort and challenge, just what I needed. Life has thrown me for a complete loop though, over the last few datys and I haven't got around to actually implementing my plan. I will let you know how it goes when I do though.

((thumbs up!!))

I know this is old, but I just wanted to update:

I thought of a great way to solve the issues she was raising, sent an email telling her what I was going to do, then implemented it. It was good because while it did fix the issues she was having, it didn't 'give in' iykwim. (I thought that would just lead to another thing to complain about as it had in the past) and I even got brave and finished the email similar to what Grinity suggested!

The outcome? She isn't speaking to me. Which is kind of weird, but I'm basically ignoring it and it really is an improvement. And most importantly, I feel okay about myself and how I acted and I don't feel cowered and bullied. And while I don't know what she has said to others, either they are good pretending or they haven't cared. (Since they don't seem to have noticed she isn't talking to me, I'm not sure what they think actually.) It's a very interesting place to be...

Yippee GeoMamma!!! I'm so glad you found a way to procede that didn't compromise your own standards. Good for your friends who aren't willing to stoop along with one person's game. Yippee!

smiles,
Grinity

I dug this thread out to rant .

Two of my friends have kids with dyslexia. I sympathize and really want to help. I've been passing on whatever resources I've found, many of which are not suitable for DS, but it doesn't matter. Anyway, I recently organized a group buy for something that I did find useful. Then I found out that one of the mums had arranged for the material to be used by her friends in a co-op setting, but she wasn't going to include us. "The number of kids is too overwhelming", she says. I just feel so let down. I guess I wouldn't have joined in any case as my son is really picky about friends, but isn't it even just courtesy and respect to ask since I did all the leg work? I think I must have sounded upset, because she sent an email to say perhaps I should join them after all since going it alone is hard work. I don't feel like replying to make her feel better.

All these never happened before DS. I'm so grateful DS and I have each other (DH can't quite understand what's happening since he's at work all the time)! But gosh, looks like no matter how much I contribute, it'll seem like we don't "deserve" help because "your kid is too advanced for his age".

So sorry to hear that blob. It's hard when you've been trying and it doesn't work out. I wonder what her reasoning was? Giving a benefit of the doubt, perhaps your friend thought that they might not be able to work in a group setting with the disparities in ability? Not knowing the situation, it's hard to say, but is it a possibility?

As time has gone on I have been more and more convinced of the fact that some people just can't seem to cope with any signs of giftedness. I am s.l.o.w.l.y coming to accept that it's actually more about them than it is me. Others are great! I was talking to a (different) friend on the weekend about my son and admitted his giftedness (we were talking home education talk. And she was lovely. She did say, however that anyone who spent five minutes talking to him would know!

I guess what I'm saying, blob is commiserations, it's not fair, it might not have much to do with you at all. And I hope it gets better.

Tks Geomamma!

I'm so glad you were able to find someone live to talk to about DS. Regular people do exist out there! I was lucky yesterday - DS has been making friends with his swim mates parents. He just loves to chat with them. I've always been a shy about mixing but yesterday, they drew me out to ask about DS. My plan is to not say more than necessary :o, but these people are nice! I love the way they handle their kids. Plenty for me to learn!

That sounds like great news blob! I really hope it works out!

It doesn't have a happy ending. She never did talk to me again, she continued to undermine me, and her children were bullying mine all this time. This week, while on maternity leave, I was effectively dumped. I found out only when changes to the group were announced publicaly by email - The name, that I created, was changed. The website I designed was moved and the structure I gave it was changed. Even the wording of the announcement was using the same language that this person used when she was harrassing me. The hard part? This person was not in a position to make the changes, someone else who stepped in for me did it.

I sent out a resignation email thanking everyone for their time and saying how I have enjoyed and that I was sorry I wasn't able create a safe and supportive environment, but I hoped to see people around, and wished the new group all the best. Having been effectively evicted it seemed important to go with dignity. I hope I did that.

A handful of people have contacted me, thanking me for my time and hoping I am all right. I have heard nothing from anyone else, including the lady who was replacing me.

Now I have to continue to run into these people on a regular basis, as the community is too small not to see them, and I have lost what I thought was a good suuport for us. So I'm generally feeling pretty miserable.

I'm trying to look at the bright side and say I now have time for a business I've been thinking of. Pity it would need the support of almost the same people.

I wonder if some of this frustration might be mitigated by just telling that 'special' someone who is driving you crazy (next time they make an odd comment)...'what do you mean by that?' see if you can draw them out gently and get to understand that they are crossing a line.
Might not work, might result in a real scene (hopefully not), but if you are considering chucking a volunteer role and/or someone's friendship anyway, shouldn't you reach out to try to explain yourself first? I think that 'running of the tapes' in your head really shows that you have things you WANT to SAY, it's just figuring out how to approach the issue.

It's like telling someone they have broccoli in their teeth; people really want to know if they are being a-holes. (really they don't set out in the morning to make you miserable!)

I have never once regretted speaking my mind on something, it always makes me feel much better and frankly I have salvaged otherwise terrible work relationships, friendships and relative relationships this way. I once told a friend at work to 'just call me Frank', since they looked so shocked that I was taking on a particularly cranky colleague. It can be done, but not without communication!

Unfortunately it's gone to far for that now, Chris1234, (I have already have resigned and the person was already not talking to me) but perhaps next time I'll try it. It can't end up worse than this.

I do think with hindsight that standing up for myself more agressively (assertively?) at the beginning may have been better, but it was alwys so carefully done that pointing at anyone thing would have looked petty to others, you know?

Hugs to you GM. This all sounds just awful. I wish we were close enough to have regular plays!

Sounds like a nasty situation, GeoMamma - sorry you had to go through this.

Sorry to hear the update...how frustrating! Hopefully you'll find some silver linings and your business will be a great success. I wonder if there is some small tweak that will allow you to do the business that interests you, but give you a customer base that is different from this gang?

Love and More Love,
and Hugs
Grinity

I have a very nice friend who works very hard at school/learning w/ DC. DD ended up infront of her in the library line with 15 books and her child had 2. My friend said, DC has a whole stack of books at home to read. She wasn't being mean, I think she just felt she needed to keep up with us. I just smiled. I felt a little sad as this was one of many little situations I deal with. I think many kids read 2 books a week and that's ok. I try not to brag infront of her and tell her it's good DC is challenged and knows how to work hard.

Many of us are dealing with feeling different. Hugs.

De-lurking to say I'm sorry for your loss, GeoMomma. Because it really is a loss, isn't it?

I came on here to read this morning because I'm also in a bad situation, socially. I am surrounded by the pettiness of other mothers in my Group Which Shall Not Be Named.

As I spend time with this group, I see much jealousy and judgement towards kids and their parents-- not just about intelligence or ability, but about every little thing: behavior, religion, friends, even age of puberty onset. The group seems broken down into cliques, with different cliques sitting at different tables at meetings. If I sit with one clique, I have to listen to them gossip about the other. Then I feel too worried about trying to sit with the other clique, because I assume they must hate me for sitting with the first clique!! Ack! It is exactly like jr. high, and it is draining.

I am mostly an observer and operate pretty much on the periphery of things. When I watch these moms, the behavior seems all too similar to watching packs of wild animals vying for rank. Just replace sharp teeth with sharp words.

You are not alone!

Thanks everyone, I am feeling okay about it most of the time and I got excited last night doing some planning for the business. (Yes, using a slightly different basis )

Annette, I did do those things - I can really see in this case it wouldn't have made any difference, it wasn't anything to do with me. I think there are some people who, for reasons of their own, just have to be horrible to you. Whatever personal 'hot buttons' they have, they just lash out instead of dealing with it. The level of hatred she has had to maintain to do this for more than a year despite me not responding in anyway unless I have had to, is staggering to me.

GM, I'm so sorry it came to this, but not surprised. I have a colleague where i have wondered the exact same thing - how do you maintain it - how are you always the victim while harming others - how do you constantly lie even when caught. it is bewildering, frustrating and very draining. I found that being around the person and their drama just sucked the positive out of me and replaced it with their crap. And I totally agree, even people who think we exaggerate, or are bragging, are not necessarily malicious. To undermine and actively work against someone doesnt have anything to do with the kids, its the adult!

Can you find a new group? Maybe there are others also on the outside - not sure how small your area is

()hugs))
DeHe

You've described exactly why I like working with things more than people!

Thank you! I did remember reading this so I googled it last night:


It kind of helped a bit.

(From here:http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/creatively_gifted.htm)

This makes me kinda sad. I'm a happy introvert, so I don't do a lot of socializing. I saw some cattiness going on when I was a military wife in those groups, so I simple stayed home and talked to a few wives I liked.

Everyone says that school "teaches kids about the real world."
I've thought before that that wasn't true, because the real world doesn't operate like junior high. Apparently, it does... unless you act like a hermit like I do and hang out with yourself most of the time.

How the heck can I prepare my kids to deal with these people when I make it a point not to deal with them? If I start hanging out with someone and I get a bad vibe or they are negative or whatever, I simply stop seeing them. I don't even work with anyone, so I get to avoid office politics, too.

I will likely force myself to get along so my daughter has friends and play dates now, though. (Although, so far I love all the people I've met in our local group, so maybe it will all be fine. I did get a look or two when I showed up to a meeting with my sitting up by herself 4 month old, though.)

I'm really unsettled about the stuff I am reading in this thread. I have idealistic visions of finding mama friends to hang out with while we watch our kids play together. It seemed like an easy way to make friends lol.

Islandofapples, I have found it easier to make friends since having kids. But as my eldest daughter grows up I do constantly finding myself completely lacking the skills to help her navigate peer bitchyness. Like you I just avoid people that give me a bad vibe, have never coped with office politics, etc. But when we have a playdate here and I can see that the other kids clearly are being exclusive and mean, then lying to her and to me about their behaviour I haven't got the FAINTEST idea how to deal with that without seeming like I am just taking my own child's side. And simply sending the other kids home doesn't seem like a good idea either. I think I have been more distressed than my DD by some recent playdate carry on.

My favorite book to help DS with friendships was
Friends Forever: How Parents Can Help Their Kids Make and Keep Good Friends [Paperback]
Fred Frankel (Author)
I'm not sure if it goes into depth with the 'little girl thing' that seems so inevitable but it seems worth a try.
As far as learning to understand and unravel verbal violence, I love the books by Suzette Haden Elgin in her Gentle Art of Verbal Self-Defense.
There is an Audible Audio that might be particularly useful, I've enjoyed all the books although they are quite repetitive.
Mastering the Gentle Art of Verbal Self-Defense [Unabridged] [Audible Audio Edition]

Best Wishes,
this is a tough one!
Grinity

Dittoing the suggestion for the Good Friends Are Hard to Find book. Just to give you a preview one of things he suggests is to focus on one on one playdates. It is much easier for kids to develop better social skills one on one. Anytime you start getting bigger groups there is more risk of exclusionary play and that sort of thing.

I didn't catch how old your child is, but with preschool or lower elementary kids... If you do have a group over my suggestion would be to start with a clear statement of the rules "At our house the rule is everyone gets to play" and then if you see violations of that rule remind them of the house rules and make it clear how it applies.

Thank you Grinity and PTP for your thoughtful suggestions. I actually have read Friends Forever on your recommendation Grinity. And I thought that it was helping, and that my DD was ready for a group play (which I had avoided for 2 yrs!) and um, Disaster... Two girls from the group of 4 she is part of at school got dropped off 45 mins early (yes really) and came together and had already hit their groove in the car before arriving, the 4th girl was delivered an hour late and by then things were already bad.

She's 9, in yr 4, one of the youngest in her class, but most of them are younger siblings rather than the eldest, and we think she has undiagnosed ADHD, possibly even some ASD-ish-ness... Woohoo that psych appt is looming!

Wow! That does sound tough to deal with.

but if you think it was working, it probably was, and this is just a reminder to go back to the 'rules.' Hey, if there are rules for dating, why not for playdates?

Now that I think of it, we kept it to playdates with either one other child or a few select pairs of siblings who had long ago worked out their dominance issues. There is one friendship where the other kid "B" seems set on inviting a kid "C" at the last minute just so that they can experiment with the 1 vs. 2 dynamic.

I've basically refused playdates at the other kid's house. I really like the other mom, and sometimes both DS and I visit at the same time. And when the other friend "C" 'just happends' to be dropped off, we get up and I take my kid home. I 'suddenly remember' that we really really have to go. Theatre is a part of life, right?

I'm actually quite proud of what we all have been able to figure out together. Every few years I let this particular bunch try group playdates again...sometimes they work and I let them go a few more tries. Sometimes it's the same old-same old, and I decline the next few invitations. DS says it's a good thing that he met this particular child at daycare bacause if they tried to become friends now it would just never happen since they move in totally different circles. I figured if my DS gets to know and be able to handle this pattern of behavior as a pre-adolescent in a same-sex friendship, then hopefully he won't be blindsided when he sees the same behavior in the dating world. I haven't gotten any reports to see if this is true, but at least if DS ever brings up the topic, we'll have some common references to discuss: Remember when "B" would always try to get "C" over during your playdates....

((shrugs and more shrugs))
Grinity