Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments Homeschooling-- biggest mistake of my life

I have been homeschooling my 8yo DYS son for a year and a half and it is a complete disaster. He is defiant and I cannot get him to do anything. So I give up for a while and "unschool"... but this only allows him to give in to his obsessions for days on end, he just stays in his fantasy world all day.

Rather than freeing his mind and allowing to learn about what interests him... his interests just get narrower and narrower. By this I mean he spends all day setting little paper soldiers up on the table and moving them around. By the end of the day his eyes are all bleary, his face is red, he does not look healthy at all.

Money is tight and I cannot sign him up for many activities. Actually, none at all right now. The only place he wants to go is to the model store and we cannot go to the model store...we can hardly pay our mortgage. I have to scream to get him to get dressed and come out with me, he has no more interest in the great museums that are all around us here in NYC, where we used to while away our days. (I guess we have gone too often.) Anyway, at the homeschool coop classes, we faced the same behavior problems and lack of interest and focus we faced in school. The same sinking feeling when I went to pick him up. The same unwillingness to let him to with older kids where it MIGHT be a little better. I think taking him out of school was the worst thing I ever did to him.

It's also bad for my two year old-- there's so much screaming and crying in the house. The defiance is the worst. I get wild with fury because he just ignores me all day. When I spend time with a "normal" who listens to simple commands-- tie your shoes, come down to lunch, etc... it's always amazing to me.

Most days he does no work at all, and I am NOT comfortable with this. His interests, as I said, have winnowed down to these little paper soldiers. This is one difficult child, and I feel totally without support. I have to say DYS has been no real help at all.

I'm sorry, I just had to vent.

I have no experience with homeschooling, but lots of experience being frustrated with my children not listening. It is a challenge for sure and can push us to our limits. You didn't make a mistake. You made a decision with your son's best interest in mind. It may feel like a mistake today, but after some peace and quiet and time to unwind you may feel differently. If you still feel it is not the right fit you can put him back in the public school next year. Is it possible to put him back in right now? I'm sorry I don't have lots of advice, but just want you to know you are not alone in feeling frustrated.

First of all, huge virtual hugs, Bronxmom!

I can hear how frustrated you are. Can you find a way to take a break, get some peace and quiet for an hour or two, and then try to come up with alternative solutions? We all need some space to restore ourselves once in a while.

I haven't had the opportunity to homeschool my boys, but I can imagine that it would be a handful. It sounds like maybe you both need a break. Is it possible to put your DS in a different school situation? Maybe a different school? Or the same one with a grade skip, if that is what's needed? Or maybe back in the old situation is better than homeschooling for you guys?

The good thing is that it is definitely changeable -- you can send your DS back to school if that's what you think is best for you, him and your family.

What kind of help are you looking for from DYS? Have you asked for their help in working with a school in your area to find appropriate accommodations for your DS?

I don't know that I've offered any real help, but I'm sending good thoughts your way. Remember that you have made choices in the best interest of your child. You tried something in hopes it would be better. You've realized it's not working, and that's OK. Now it's time to see if you need to try something different that might work better.

Again, HUGS!

Bronxmom, from my point of view it seems like you should seek help from a professional psychologist. It is not usual for a child to be that consistently defiant, or to have interests that get narrower and narrower, or to be unable to follow instructions at that age.

If your DS is depressed, he should be treated; if something else is going on, it's better to know than not.

In addition to a private psychologist, I think you should call the school district and ask them to evaluate him. He is entitled to this whether or not he goes back to school. It's worth doing because if he needs any special help, the school can fund it, which might lessen your financial concerns.

Best wishes--
DeeDee

DeeDee, you are absolutely right. I am only now acknowledging that something is really really wrong, getting worse, and needs to be addressed.

I have requested an evaluations from the DOE and am waiting to hear back from them-- I believe they legally have 30 days after the request to see him and then I am hoping they will at least be forced to send me a tutor or somebody to work with him. I have also gotten him a psychologist and he just started seeing her last week. In the past he has been evaluated and seen therapists, but it was like he was smart enough to hide what was really going now, now he is not maturing like he should, and he is definitely more obsessive, so I think it's becoming more obvious and I will get an answer.

And yes he is defiant in almost every way. He's not violent or anything. Just ignores us.

And we go to the library almost every day. Libraries are great.

I guess this is a lesson that kids who are obsessive, defiant, and unable to focus like this might be bad candidates for homeschooling.

I'm so sorry you're having so much frustration. I'm homeschooling my 6 and 10 year old too. It sounds like you're dealing with behavior above and beyond what I'd expect even from a PG child. So I agree with the above. It sounds like maybe you need a professional eval. Maybe someone who specializes in GT/2E issues. Does he seem happy? Does he challenge himself in any areas? Does he enjoy other children?

If school needs to be a part of your life for everyone's sanity, then just find the best fit you can. If you're both miserable under the current conditions, that won't serve him well anyway.

Sending all the best to you and your family! Good luck!

Bronxmom, I think you're doing all the right things: it may require some persistence, but keep seeking until you find the right help and support for your DS. If your first psychologist doesn't have the right expertise, you'll find someone who does. (It took us several tries to figure out our DS, but it was worth the effort.)

And I don't think you should beat yourself up any more about the homeschooling. Stuff happens with kids; whether this is something diagnosable, or developmental, or whether he's just in a bad spot right now that he needs to work through, it's not your fault. You'll do what you can to help him through it, but I just don't bet that the homeschooling "did this."

DeeDee

Does your son have Asperger's Syndrome? This level of intense focus on a narrow interest that interferes with ordinary social functioning is one of the diagnostic features.

Speaking as the mother of an AS, homeschooled, 14 yr. old, strong-willed, hg/pg son who has had an intense interest in tabletop wargaming since he was very small, I sympathize. One strategy you might use is to encourage him to express his interest in ways that incidentally included other things you want him to learn without explicitly pointing this out to him.
For example, when my son was about 7 or 8, we introduced him to the BBC History website, which includes simulations of historical battles, and in his explorations of those aspects, he eventually began reading other areas of the site and this broadened his interests.

We encouraged him to make maps and write narratives of his campaigns and share them with us and with others, bought him a cheap old version of Age of Empires (which included a great deal of history instruction in the background text included in the game),encouraged him to learn about the military in different countries and historical periods, discussed the different social and cultural factors required to support armies, the political, social,cultural, religious and economic factors underlying how and why wars start and end, the logistics involved in warfare, how warfare has driven innovation in industry and medicine, inquired about how crossing different terrain would impact the soldiers (Would it be colder or warmer in the mountains? Easier or harder to breathe? Would there be water available? Food? Fuel?)to stimulate learning about geography and science, we went on field trips to site of historical battles, and did everything we could to spark an interest in him learning things that would expand his horizons by connecting them to things he was already interested in.

Some of the kinds of question we would ask or express an interest in were similar to these: How much water would you have to carry with you if you were marching an army from ______ to ______ ? How could you figure that out? Would ground troops or fortifications be better to secure a border from attack by foot soldiers? By artillery? By cavalry? What if the border was a river running through a plain? A river at the bottom of a valley? The top of a mountain range? How can you figure that out? Can you convince me of your position using evidence from science and history? What made the Samurai such good warriors? Was it the same thing that made the Scots good warriors? What about the Romans? The Mongols under Ghengis Khan? Why are some cultures more war-like than others? How do geography, religion, natural resources, and economics influence that? What materials have been used for armor historically and in modern times? Why? You get the idea...

All of that said, we have a rule that he needs to work on something school-related for at least two hours every single day. If he can make a convincing argument that what he is doing counts as school, if he can point to the learning that is happening, and how it is relevant to developing the skills that he needs, then he gets to count it as a school activity. For a while, when his keyboarding skills were still at the point where he needed to improve them, he got to count playing Runescape as typing practice up to three hours a week. This rule about "If you can convince me..." has greatly improved his skills in argumentation and rhetoric, incidentally. We also have a rule which says that my final answer is final, though, to prevent incessant arguing.

It gets better, if you can avoid turning it into a power struggle which you both will lose - which can be the most difficult part of the whole thing. My son, at 14, is active online editing a gaming-oriented Wiki and writing not one but two blogs related to his gaming interest, both of which have numerous followers. He has developed online social relationships with other bloggers and wargamers, and he socializes IRL with others who share his interest at our local gaming store, which hosts free open game days and nights open to players of all ages. The strong interest is still there, and probably always will be. But his interests and knowledge base are pretty wide ranging at this point, although there have certainly been times when I wanted to despair. He is active in Aikido, he goes swimming with a few friends, he participates in a homeschool book club, he writes awesome poetry (some of which is haiku inspired by his wargaming, but still - he is writing poetry!), he is working through the Hippocampus AP classes in math, biology, and US History this semester, he is using Academic Earth and Annenberg media courses on his own as interest strikes, he lists "Arts and Ideas" among favorite books, and he participated in a Duke TIP law class this past summer and excelled in it.

There is hope. I wouldn't blame homeschooling. You might need to change how you are implementing it though, and even then, it doesn't sound like you got an easy child. Mine has always had "a strong will and a strong won't", and has been "high maintenance" since infancy. I'm glad that you posted this, and I hope that what I have written is helpful.

Edit: In case I didn't make it clear, I support the idea that you should get your son evaluated by a psychologist.

I think that you've received a lot of good advice. I think that if you can access a psychologist who has experience working with gifted kids it makes sense at this point. The only thing that I would like to add is that you might want take a look at

http://www.sengifted.org/articles_counselin/Webb_MisdiagnosisAndDualDiagnosisOfGiftedChildren.shtml

and also read the book which the article is based on http://www.amazon.com/Misdiagnosis-Diagnoses-Gifted-Children-Adults/dp/0910707642

I find this forum routinely perserves my sanity. I get so much from reading about everyone's experiences that I would like share a bit.

I am homeschooling a very strong willed, defiant child DD7 and I have a DS3 who has absorbed a lot of the craziness since birth. It's heartbreaking for everyone, but things are getting better. I'm not sure whether or not my DD7 is 2E. We live in a reasonably remote part of Canada and I am not comfortable with the services that we can access locally. I do hope to have my DD7 evaluated at some point, but we will need to travel and we can't afford it right now. In a way this has been a blessing because I have had to figure things out on my own. This continues to be tremendous work. Homeschooling DD7 was emotionally draining for the first year. Almost daily I ended up in tears and felt like I couldn't do it, but I also couldn't put her back into school because I knew that it wasn't going to work either (we don't have many options). I assumed that 'homeschooling' was going to be a really fun and relaxed experience. I assumed that DD would actually want to do 'school work'. From day 1 it was a battle. She had meltdown after meltdown. She hit me, kicked me and screamed on and off all day. Sometimes I screamed back... but most often I ended up sobbing. In this process I feel that we destroyed a lot of trust. I didn't trust that she would ever be able to learn at home and she didn't trust that I was capable of helping her. She pushed buttons that I didn't even know that I had. Eventually she started to shut down, her interests in many areas disappeared. Her curiosity dwindled. She was no longer interested in 'everything' and instead her interests became extremely focused on 'fashion', which to this day I still personally struggle with LOL!

For me (and I am absolutely not implying that this is your situation) I had to admit that my vision of homeschool wasn't going to work. We tried a whole bunch of different approaches, including unschooling and nothing seemed to improve. I had to admit again and again that my approach was possibly never going to work. I blame myself, but I try to keep it in check because it really doesn't help. I just end up crying. Right now I am really focusing on gaining her trust and sparking her curiosity. As I am getting it back (little by little) she is becoming more receptive to doing 'school work'. We don't do a lot. She has a lot of control. Honestly, this part has been very hard for me to accept, but, my alternative is kicking and screaming.

My DD shows many signs of AS and ADHD, however, as our lives improve these signs are becoming less noticeable. I know that my initial approach to homeschooling was a 'bad educational fit', and this was a hard pill to swallow. Sometimes I wonder if I'm just getting really good at accommodation. Maybe I am, and if she ends up with a diagnoses, then we are on the right track. I think that eventually we will find it fun (maybe even relaxed). I just didn't anticipate that this would take years. Maybe this is where the rewarding part comes in...

Bronxmom, I am so sorry you are going through this. Tears welled up in my eyes reading your posts and some of the responses. I can imagine how heartbreaking all of this is for you. I can also imagine that homeschooling my DD4.5 might present similar challenges. She is also rather defiant, very intense, and doesn't want to do anything that looks like schoolwork so I am not homeschooling except in tiny pieces. We may sit down to make a book together or read books about science topics. Her verbal skills are stronger than her math, though her math are quite high too (she is beyond end of first grade in math while in pre-k), but she would much rather tell stories, read books, etc, than build or organize or work with numbers so I have tried to initiate activities that use the more mathematical parts of her brain to help balance her out, but she often fights me. She is good at math, but resists it if I initiate it simply because I initate it. My fear is that when I let her lead the way, she also narrows her focus and it doesn't seem healthy for her brain. I think she needs to be pushed a little to expand, not contract. My DD often fights everything, but has gotten a little better. I wish I could tell you what helped, but I am honestly not sure.

Good luck with the evaluation. I hope that you find the answers you need and the best educational situation for your child.